Jagged Little Pill: Alanis Morissette & 1995 Music History | 50 For 50

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're in the year 1995.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Alanna Smorset had a little record called Jagged Little Pill.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Little record.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was designed to be a little record.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, you know, I don't know how much of that is true, but you know, we turned out to not be a little record at all.

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[SPEAKER_00]: June 13th, 1995.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what's interesting about this and a lot of it is the research that I've done and the documentary that was on HBO Max called Jagged from, I think it was 2021.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What she's actually distance herself from, and I have no idea why.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like the documentary puts her in a really good light

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[SPEAKER_00]: it there's lots of great footage of of her on tour from that time frame.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she's very honest, she's looks strong.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I know she's a, you know, she had to deal with some postpartum.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she'd been dealing with that or maybe still does deal with that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she believes that they caught her at a wrong time or something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But like I was trying, I was watching this documentary going like, I'm not, I'm not exactly sure what she's upset about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The idea that she was this Canadian pop princess like Canada's Debbie Gibson, and then she just gets dropped because really pop music is all about album sales and charting and not necessarily about artistic expression which is where she was leaning.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so she gets dropped and comes to the US.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and Glenn Ballard and her, just tag team to create this album, and like the reason I said this little album is because if you were to ask both of them at that time,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Is this thing going to be successful?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think both of them would have thought, yes?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's certainly notcha the extent that it became successful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, like you got to frame it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, like with the documentary, I think that's pretty typical, like I'm thinking back to the tribe documentary and how they were all like this documentary sucks.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We don't support it when it first came out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, they were just kind of...

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[SPEAKER_00]: They had beef on that documentary.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's why they were like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it was also like super honest and they were probably just in their feelings about that, um, you know, and then with, you know, with the album, like

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[SPEAKER_01]: 1995 was such a period for where like pop music just was not hidden, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: You had, you know, kind of like the late 80s early 90s and we had Paula and Debbie Gibson and the new kids and all that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then by the end of the 90s, early 2000s, you had Brittany and Christina and sink in the back street boys and destiny's child and all that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But like the middle of the decade,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody was messing with pure down the middle like danceable pop music.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it made sense for her to make a shift.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And to be fair, like nobody in the U.S. knew who she was before Jack O'Pill came out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, um, she was very much a Canadian pop star and, and that was that, how I remember it is, I woke up one day, not knowing who Linus Morse that was, and then the very next day, everybody I knew knew who Linus Morse.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like how does that happen, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know, man overnight, just she's the biggest star in music at that specific amount of time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, bro.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was working in a record store in 1995 and believe me when I tell you from the time that album came out like somebody in that store played that CD every day for like six months straight.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so in 1995, Alannus described her writing process as spiritual and stream of consciousness.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She felt the desperate need to be honest after years of being a perfect pop child star in Canada.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She famously said, I just want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and not feel like I was lying.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So in hindsight, years after the success of her album, she said, she views the album as a snapshot of a 19-year-old psyche.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She has expressed pride that the anger people attributed to her was actually just assertiveness and self-expression.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's actually a really great theme for this album, is a lot of dudes were like, who's this angry chick?

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[SPEAKER_00]: a young woman kind of growing into her adult self and looking at her life and going like, hey, this wasn't cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't how things are supposed to work and I'm just going to write about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time, now I don't know who's been exposed or who hasn't been exposed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But

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[SPEAKER_00]: She talked about in her early pop princess years, about like being like a young teenager and having these adult experiences with men.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she came to this conclusion, well, I'm sure she'd come to the conclusion before, but the way she stated it in the documentary was like, I felt that I was 15 and I was making these decisions for myself to do these things with these men.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then she goes, but at 15, you don't really have consent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot consent.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then these were all adult males.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then they're all pedophiles.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of wonder if that's the thing that she was bothered about that came out in the dark.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because she, I mean, if people want to do the math,

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[SPEAKER_00]: just go back to that time frame and see the men she was working with and you could probably, you know, be 50, 50 on on who she's talking about.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But so that is her career as a young kid and she even said the reason that she didn't really speak out about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: is because it kind of, it kind of made her parents look bad, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like her parents kind of handed her off to these adults saying, here, take care of my child and, you know, here's, we're giving a landest to the music industry.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time, you know, she grew up like literally grew up in this music industry with the highs.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the immediate lows.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then the self, like, I don't know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: if there was depression involved, but she said since that she's got years and years and years and years of therapy, and then outcomes jagged a little pill.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like this weird thing of where crazy success failure, and then success again, and all in that is this kind of being used and abused by the music industry, at such a young age, and I kind of wonder like how she even thinks back about that timeframe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wanted to, I mean, look, the music industry is super, super exploitative, and it is no secret at this point that children get exploited probably more than anybody else, like they look to exploit children because children are vulnerable.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you look at Brittany, you know, you look at Michael Jackson, you look at Alia, you look at, you know, all of these children who were, you know, exploited, and I think maybe back in the day there was the element of trust.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, I'm gonna, you're a business person, you're successful, you're, you're rich, you're playing a part.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I will hand my kid off to you because you seem trustworthy, but that historically has not ended well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Alainus is just one of many, many examples of where that does not end well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I'd be hard pressed to find the case where it didn't well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the year in music 1995 now I am in the summertime after my freshman year in college when the album comes out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So heading into my sophomore year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Music for me was not really a Lannis Moriset at this time, though I grew to really enjoy this album and to appreciate her as an artist.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But I wasn't rocking out to this like alt rock kind of sound in my day to day.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But California is actually what launches her into the stratosphere because the radio station, I want to get the call letters correctly here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The radio station in LA that is given the credit for launching her is KROQ FM, a modern rock L.A. station, they just started playing you ought to know, partially because flea and Dave Navarro are on the song, but it was just like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: This this young lady is kicking some ass here and we want to showcase this and then I in that documentary they there was a DJ who was who was playing at the time and she was saying how back then they were forbidden

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[SPEAKER_00]: to play back to back female artists.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So she couldn't play Atlantis and then no doubt like back to back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they had to be really strategic about spreading it out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But they are given the credit for really breaking Atlantis out because they were such an influential radio station.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Kay Rock is a huge Tuesday.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, alternative, you know, Indie Rock radio station.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And that rule, it's funny, I was just talking to somebody for a detox last week who has worked in the music industry for many years, and he basically said a variation of the same thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like labels will sign a female artist, and then if another talented female artist comes in, they'll be like, oh, we already have one female artist, like we can't sign another one, which is so silly.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was silly then, it's silly now, the idea that you can't play, which I think,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe pop radio has deviated from, because pop radio is so, um, woman-fronted, um, um, but, you know, the idea that back then you couldn't play a lannis more set in Cheryl Crow or a lannis more set in Fiona Apple or, you know, a lannis more set in Courtney love back to back is just kind of dumb.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, don't really silly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So you said you are working in a music store at the work in a tower records, baby.

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[SPEAKER_00]: When you heard that Atlantis more said album, did you immediately think, oh my gosh, the thing is amazing, or did you just think, like, yeah, you know, school.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it took a couple of little sense to grow on me but it's sort of the frequency with which we were playing it in the store kind of coincided with the frequency with which people were coming in and buying the record.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you want to catch things while they're rising, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So at a certain point, I was like, okay, everybody's digging this record.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard it a couple of times.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to buy the CD and, you know, I bought it

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I see for those on a video you can see the vinyl, have you have you ever seen her live?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I have nine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, funny story is that the company that I work for actually has put albums out of hers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So when she left... For Maverick, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when she left Warner Bros. And for one of our holiday parties, this might have been, I don't know, 2015, 2016, maybe 2017.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was like a video recorded message from a bunch of artists in the Lannis Morse set, was one of those artists wishing us a happy holiday season.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, you and I had this conversation as we were doing the research and I went to you and I was like I can remember the first three albums very clearly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember the the albums I remember, you know, I don't know if I actually had her second album definitely had the third album.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, all of a sudden, I'm digging through her discography on Apple Music.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I've never heard this record, never heard this record, never heard this record.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was so surprised to see how prolific she was over the years, because I just figured she was one of those artists who just really didn't create new music anymore, but she created a lot of new music.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Some of her new stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some of which we'll talk about in the top five, because,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I have some her of her newest stuff kind of on the fringes of my top five, but didn't actually make the top five, but we'll shout it out when we do that that episode, but

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[SPEAKER_00]: like what like to come from jagged little pill, which does like 33 million sales worldwide.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's trying to record him to then still create music, but outside of her like hard, hard, hard core fan base, like nobody really realizes it's out there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of crazy to me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like it was a situation where like you have your core fan base and then you have everybody who's just kind of like trying to catch the wave and jagged a little pill was like she came out and everybody caught the wave and then I think partially by design on her part and partially because that's just the way music goes um her each album that came out after so like last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last last

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[SPEAKER_01]: until it was kind of like just for core.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, again, I think that kind of happens to everybody, but also like music changed, like the things that people were messing with on pop radio and MTV changed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And by the time like her third or fourth album came out to like bring the conversation full circle, we were in the middle of Brittany and Christina and in St. in Backstreet Boys and, you know, despite the fact that

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the type of music she made wasn't was maybe a little too cerebral for the average pop music fan.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, 1995.

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[SPEAKER_00]: February 7th.

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[SPEAKER_00]: two-pox course sentence to one and a half to four and a half years in present in prison on a sexual abuse charge he is later released on appeal now we did our two-pox episode you can go back and listen to that and we talk about all this stuff but as we break down the year in a music ninety five his name will come up a few times here to the issue he should

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh... motley crew drummer Tommy Lee marries baywatch actress Pamela Anderson on a beach in cancun mexico little little video tape would come out about some of these escapades uh...

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[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, Pamela Anderson is in the new reboot of naked gun.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She, I watch, I saw that in the theater.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She's really good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She's very good.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Shout out to Pamela Anderson.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Still still doing her thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There were Liam Neeson and her supposedly had a fling, but I can't tell if it was just for the movie, or if it was actually real or not.

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[SPEAKER_01]: who knows.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Did you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a keen peel skip about Liam Neeson where they keep saying his name is Liam Neeson's and I can't get out of my head.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Just Pamela Anderson Lee.

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[SPEAKER_01]: She'll always be Pamela Anderson Lee to me.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And Liam Neeson's and then we'll be together.

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[SPEAKER_00]: March 1st the 37th annual Grammy Awards in LA hosted by Paul Ryzer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Paul Ryzer hosted the Grammy is what does it's mad about you time frame.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is mad about you time frame.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bruce is so weird choice.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Bruce Springsteen won four awards including song of the year for Street's Philadelphia while Tony Bennett's MTV on plug live won album of the year and Cheryl Croze all I want to do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: one record of the year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She also won best new artist.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_00]: March 14th, meagants the world comes out to back as the first male solo artist to have a number one album.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well in prison.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's the first anything artist to have a number one album while in prison.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Does he think anybody is like, I want to break that record.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And now,

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[SPEAKER_00]: rapper, Eric Wright, better known as EZE dies of complication from AIDS.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember hearing about him being sick.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And back then, I mean, even now, we don't have a lot of cases where people are contracting full, full-blown aids.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But back then, it was like the biggest thing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody, like, because it's so scary, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then you had magic, of course, was still the most famous person to be alive, but you had Freddie Mercury pass away.

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[SPEAKER_00]: easy e pass as a way in in 1995 like that was a giant story and you know it's kind of amazing thanks to you know evolution of medicines if that we don't see these things happen like that it really any more as much as we did from that like big scary presentation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I mean, the crazy thing about EZ is that, hey, it happened so fast.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, EZ is doing videos with bone thugs because bone thugs have just come out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then like, six months later, he was dead.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Which is just kind of crazy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And also, like you mentioned, just the advances in medicine and technology, like magic was diagnosed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: with HIV three years before EasyPass away almost four years before EasyPass away.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Magic is still alive still doing talk shows still like all that stuff, you know, and I personally have a relative, you know, who's diagnosed with full blown AIDS in the summer of 1996.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So just a year after EasyPass away, and it's still alive and healthy today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's, you know,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just a matter of months, he could have gotten medication that would have saved his life.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, there are a bunch of conspiracy theories about how, whether easy is dead, how easy contracted HIV and AIDS, you know, whether, yeah, so who knows?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and actress Julia Roberts announced the operation after 21 months of marriage.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, they were already married by this point.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you know, not not to make fun of the original.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The original Janet Jackson and Germaine Dupree.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, not to not to really crack on anybody's looks or whatever, but it was such an odd pairing because Julie Roberts was like the Hollywood princess and while love it was like, uh, you know, you need looking guy.

19:50.387 --> 19:56.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, not not traditionally handsome in any way, and I wonder what their connection was.

19:57.155 --> 19:59.998
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man, although to be fair, like,

20:01.413 --> 20:04.996
[SPEAKER_01]: Julia, I don't think Julia Roberts is especially attractive.

20:05.096 --> 20:10.941
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she's attractive in that way that like the press funds certain white women attractive.

20:11.422 --> 20:13.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't think she's like real world.

20:14.164 --> 20:16.326
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's not like a don't piece or anything like that.

20:16.386 --> 20:18.087
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she's kind of an average looking woman.

20:18.848 --> 20:19.709
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man.

20:20.029 --> 20:23.472
[SPEAKER_00]: She's got crazy charm and she's got a charm.

20:23.492 --> 20:25.234
[SPEAKER_00]: She's charming and charismatic.

20:25.534 --> 20:30.238
[SPEAKER_00]: That she's, you know, she's tall and thin and well.

20:30.218 --> 20:33.282
[SPEAKER_00]: But so it's a lot of love.

20:33.302 --> 20:39.511
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the thing is as she was like kind of like this budding superstar already a superstar.

20:39.791 --> 20:41.253
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like 10 years older than her.

20:41.493 --> 20:52.108
[SPEAKER_00]: So like it's kind of just an interesting connection when they did, you know, I'm sure when I'm sure if you go back and read all of those tabloid things, they're probably just cracking on how he's not that handsome.

20:52.088 --> 20:56.698
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'll do 100% doing like they want some beauty in the beast type shit.

20:56.718 --> 20:59.283
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think they literally said that in a couple of headlines.

20:59.564 --> 21:01.769
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if y'all don't know what a lot of little looks like y'all.

21:02.009 --> 21:04.715
[SPEAKER_01]: Google him, he is a unique looking individual.

21:04.835 --> 21:06.198
[SPEAKER_01]: Very talented, but unique looking.

21:06.779 --> 21:10.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing we covered on the cool check in.

21:10.347 --> 21:28.086
[SPEAKER_00]: March 31, Tejano Singer Salina is shot and killed by Yolanda Saldavar, her former personal assistant in fan club president, right, who had recently been fired for imbezzling money from the fan club, the event was called Black Friday.

21:29.230 --> 21:40.113
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, April 22nd, speaking of Janet Jackson, she ends her Janet world tour in London, England after nearly two years of touring.

21:41.295 --> 21:42.297
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a long time.

21:42.698 --> 21:44.121
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a long time to be on the road.

21:44.542 --> 21:44.842
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man.

21:44.923 --> 21:47.087
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, uh, there's, um,

21:47.708 --> 21:53.074
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little video floating around of her rehearsals for that tour where she's, well, I don't even know if there are rehearsals for the tour.

21:53.094 --> 21:56.658
[SPEAKER_01]: There were rehearsals for the if video where she's doing a choreography.

21:56.758 --> 21:58.220
[SPEAKER_01]: It's she looks like such a baby.

21:59.441 --> 22:00.222
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's amazing.

22:02.004 --> 22:10.894
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have April 29th to Pachkor Mary's Kisha Morris inside the Clinton Correctional Facility.

22:11.715 --> 22:14.759
[SPEAKER_00]: He was serving a four and a half year jail term on sexual assault.

22:14.799 --> 22:17.682
[SPEAKER_00]: They would later divorce.

22:18.353 --> 22:21.696
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Jeff Perlman's book talked to her.

22:21.877 --> 22:23.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Did he talk to her a little bit?

22:23.378 --> 22:23.839
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

22:23.879 --> 22:25.160
[SPEAKER_01]: He talked to her specifically.

22:25.200 --> 22:26.261
[SPEAKER_01]: He definitely brings it up.

22:26.401 --> 22:29.324
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't recall whether he spoke to her or not.

22:30.265 --> 22:31.006
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he might have.

22:32.668 --> 22:46.842
[SPEAKER_00]: June 20th, Michael Jackson releases his first double album history, which became the best selling multiple album of all time with 35 million copies and 70 million copies sold worldwide.

22:48.273 --> 22:49.094
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember that day.

22:49.494 --> 22:50.796
[SPEAKER_00]: Very kind of a bad day too.

22:51.116 --> 22:51.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear day.

22:52.518 --> 22:56.403
[SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't there, um, I'm trying to remember.

22:56.783 --> 23:01.629
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there was the issue with, um, they don't, they don't care about us, right?

23:02.130 --> 23:13.183
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they like, they were messing with the versions of it or whatever, like, was there anything else related to that album as far as like different versions that had come out?

23:13.754 --> 23:22.244
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the only thing that they did was a, you know, some versions changed or cut out some certain words that Michael used and they don't care about us.

23:22.624 --> 23:23.285
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's it.

23:25.668 --> 23:28.231
[SPEAKER_01]: And that album was the weird man here in Mike's swear.

23:28.531 --> 23:28.851
[SPEAKER_01]: Still.

23:30.673 --> 23:31.755
[SPEAKER_00]: I know in scream.

23:32.435 --> 23:33.997
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the kind of couple of songs.

23:35.038 --> 23:36.700
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Biggie's on that album.

23:36.720 --> 23:36.941
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:38.202 --> 23:39.103
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good thing.

23:40.619 --> 23:45.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, July 3rd, the members of TLC file for chapter 11.

23:45.687 --> 23:52.857
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this on our TLC episode as well declaring debts of over 3.5 million dollars.

23:53.779 --> 23:54.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

23:54.319 --> 23:55.141
[SPEAKER_00]: That's insane.

23:56.122 --> 23:59.627
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going on tour this summer with our song, Peppain and Boat.

24:00.449 --> 24:00.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Good for them.

24:01.731 --> 24:02.952
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

24:02.972 --> 24:04.214
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what else is going on tour?

24:05.737 --> 24:07.399
[SPEAKER_00]: Stevie Bee Bee.

24:08.000 --> 24:08.701
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh god.

24:09.041 --> 24:10.103
[SPEAKER_01]: Man.

24:12.648 --> 24:13.469
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy.

24:13.710 --> 24:14.571
[SPEAKER_01]: Good on Stevie.

24:14.691 --> 24:29.373
[SPEAKER_00]: I've already got some feelers out on some folks if they want to come with because my wife is like who the heck is Stevie B your wife doesn't know who Stevie B is she didn't you have no clue who Stevie B is But those those I'm spring love for her.

24:29.934 --> 24:35.382
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean if if I needed to I could throw in a lot of songs, but

24:35.480 --> 24:48.906
[SPEAKER_00]: My cousin who actually is a person who introduced me to Stevie B and he I think he had a part of your body on vinyl I'd reached out to him and I was like we kind of need to go to go to that.

24:48.926 --> 24:50.329
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah man y'all should go.

24:50.369 --> 24:53.134
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see we'll see if that happens

24:53.671 --> 25:01.860
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, George Michael, July 14th, and Sony music complete their acrimonious split in 1994.

25:02.060 --> 25:11.450
[SPEAKER_00]: Michael's lost a Michael lost a lawsuit seeking to be released from the Sony contract, but he vowed to never sing again for the company.

25:12.191 --> 25:15.154
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he joined DreamWorks.

25:16.956 --> 25:18.458
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the first position signed to DreamWorks?

25:18.538 --> 25:21.501
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually he went back to Sony.

25:24.282 --> 25:32.535
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, on July 18th, Selena becomes the first Hispanic singer to have an album debut and peak at number one on the Billboard 200.

25:33.416 --> 25:39.807
[SPEAKER_00]: She also becomes the first and only female singer two place five albums simultaneously on the Billboard 200.

25:39.827 --> 25:44.414
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the posthumous crossover record.

25:45.295 --> 25:47.639
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that I just recently bought on vinyl.

25:48.420 --> 25:50.724
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I don't see.

25:50.744 --> 25:52.146
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what was it?

25:53.290 --> 25:55.755
[SPEAKER_00]: 30th anniversary 30th anniversary.

25:55.775 --> 25:56.636
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's crazy.

25:57.297 --> 25:57.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Amen.

25:58.099 --> 25:58.860
[SPEAKER_00]: September 5th.

25:59.141 --> 26:01.886
[SPEAKER_00]: The backstreet boys released their debut single.

26:01.926 --> 26:03.248
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got it going on.

26:04.310 --> 26:04.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a good song?

26:05.653 --> 26:05.833
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

26:07.055 --> 26:09.019
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not.

26:09.039 --> 26:11.504
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it's not.

26:11.804 --> 26:12.786
[SPEAKER_01]: How did we just leave it there?

26:12.806 --> 26:13.507
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a good song.

26:13.527 --> 26:14.910
[SPEAKER_01]: You, I mean, it's on streaming.

26:15.852 --> 26:18.074
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I will not listen to it.

26:18.114 --> 26:19.055
[SPEAKER_00]: I will not go search it.

26:20.316 --> 26:26.702
[SPEAKER_00]: September 27th, time Warner agrees to sell back its 50% share of inner scope records.

26:26.963 --> 26:33.809
[SPEAKER_00]: The media giant had come under intense fire for the explicit lyrics of rap artists on the label, cowards.

26:39.495 --> 26:44.880
[SPEAKER_00]: On October 11th, two bucksh gors released from jail.

26:45.569 --> 26:50.320
[SPEAKER_00]: on a $1.4 million bail, which was posted by Schugnight.

26:50.901 --> 26:56.475
[SPEAKER_00]: In return, he signs a three-year or three album deal with Death Row.

26:58.900 --> 27:02.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, and, you know, what is?

27:03.693 --> 27:13.245
[SPEAKER_00]: November 6th, Queen releases their final studio album that includes contributions from all original members following Freddie Mercury's death four years earlier.

27:13.886 --> 27:17.870
[SPEAKER_00]: It goes on to be a huge success selling 20 million copies worldwide.

27:19.973 --> 27:22.096
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is the year of 1995 in music.

27:22.136 --> 27:29.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now let's talk more about the selenis more said album jagged little pill.

27:31.317 --> 27:42.991
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, it's interesting is the date, like the first week, I don't, like it really didn't even make a dent, like the first week that it was out.

27:43.572 --> 27:54.826
[SPEAKER_00]: So to go from barely being in the top, you know, 150 or whatever to 33 million is insane, but like we said, it's like the power of radio back then.

27:55.407 --> 28:00.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, back then things built, right?

28:01.523 --> 28:06.610
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they come out and nobody knows who they are, whether it's Alana Smorset or it's a hoody in the blowfish.

28:06.630 --> 28:08.052
[SPEAKER_01]: You were really big around that time.

28:09.934 --> 28:24.574
[SPEAKER_01]: Dave Macke's band, all these people who were like baby artists and through radio and touring and TV, were able like build audiences over time so that six months after the record comes out, all of a sudden, it's everywhere, green day, same thing.

28:25.055 --> 28:28.780
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, that was kind of the way that that happened back then.

28:30.059 --> 28:35.704
[SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to that album, what do you think is the song you think about most?

28:37.185 --> 28:38.887
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to know, obviously, definitely.

28:39.167 --> 28:40.168
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so too.

28:41.209 --> 28:52.919
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, that's the one that K rock, like, pushed out there because of, I mean, this probably because of the, the beginning, talking about getting ahead in a theater like that.

28:55.201 --> 28:59.745
[SPEAKER_00]: Yo, yo, let this, this lady is coming on strong.

29:00.620 --> 29:11.581
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so weird, though, because that conversation about what that song is about and why she made it and who it's about over the years.

29:12.783 --> 29:19.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there was a time where we were like, who is this about and then the rumor was,

29:20.161 --> 29:20.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave Kuyay.

29:21.723 --> 29:21.984
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

29:22.204 --> 29:25.049
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always had a problem with that rumor because I got out.

29:25.289 --> 29:26.190
[SPEAKER_00]: That's insane.

29:26.230 --> 29:27.492
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, well, Charlie.

29:27.893 --> 29:31.078
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's way older than her, right?

29:31.098 --> 29:33.442
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, can't be him, can't be him.

29:34.063 --> 29:38.670
[SPEAKER_00]: But then they'd like they admitted to dating at that time.

29:39.491 --> 29:40.212
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

29:40.782 --> 29:57.998
[SPEAKER_00]: if if this album comes out and you know this song comes out by the time the album releases she's like 21 I think I don't know she's only a year old in in us she's two years old in us okay yeah so she's 20

29:59.868 --> 30:05.737
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he's like going on 21 like he's like 14 or 15 years older than her.

30:06.038 --> 30:06.258
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:07.059 --> 30:25.629
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so 14 years older than her 15 years older than he's in his early 30s and we have to kind of do the math is she 18 17 17 Let's look look look look something up here real quick.

30:25.709 --> 30:26.230
[SPEAKER_01]: This is

30:28.100 --> 30:30.667
[SPEAKER_01]: So the age of consent in Canada is 16.

30:30.968 --> 30:31.289
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

30:32.553 --> 30:41.839
[SPEAKER_01]: So theoretically, she could have been 16 and he would have been whatever, 34, 32, 30, you know, somewhere between 30 and 32.

30:43.253 --> 30:51.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, from a consent point of view, they are in the clear, but from a, like, but it's still gross.

30:52.085 --> 30:59.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, it's the just the mentality of, because it's, okay, because this dude is already famous, right?

30:59.615 --> 31:12.653
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like, you know, I'm sure women, his age were very interesting, you know, because he's a very famous dude on television.

31:12.818 --> 31:15.281
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever was the attraction, the reason, whatever.

31:15.561 --> 31:20.986
[SPEAKER_00]: I just never bought that until they both were like, yeah, like we dated.

31:21.047 --> 31:31.477
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now the idea of who who is this person and Elana says said, she's like, it could have been a lot of people.

31:31.497 --> 31:33.540
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was dating a lot of people back then.

31:34.460 --> 31:41.728
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, what's funny is the people who say it was me,

31:42.215 --> 31:48.896
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an asshole because that song does not paint the person in a great light, right?

31:50.541 --> 31:55.195
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it doesn't paint the guy in a great light or doesn't paint her in a great light.

31:56.086 --> 31:59.050
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the song is about the dude.

31:59.591 --> 32:01.854
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, nothing up their relationship, essentially.

32:01.874 --> 32:02.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

32:02.595 --> 32:10.246
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, why would people want to raise their hand to be the subject matter of this song when I'm clearly saying that this is not a good person?

32:10.446 --> 32:12.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.

32:12.329 --> 32:13.490
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, man.

32:13.991 --> 32:19.579
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess maybe it's just better for your career if you're attached to a Linus in that way.

32:19.913 --> 32:32.292
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, I found that whole story so wild and and almost like he seemed to be okay with his name being there like he didn't really seem to shy away from it.

32:32.632 --> 32:34.996
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was comfortable with it.

32:35.437 --> 32:36.939
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he came to this day.

32:36.979 --> 32:40.825
[SPEAKER_01]: He was probably not comfortable with it, but, you know,

32:40.805 --> 32:48.372
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a 1995 Lines versus a 2026 Lines and I think he would have gotten raked over the Coles if it had happened in the last 10 years.

32:49.496 --> 32:53.008
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, he kind of got away with it being a different time.

32:53.073 --> 33:02.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and, you know, I, I, they'd cool you as a lovable guy, uh, like I still, you know, I get the Uncle Joey feels when I see Dave cool you on TV.

33:03.172 --> 33:12.248
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but there's also in the back of my head like, dude, you were messing around with like a teenager as legal as it was, is, you know, it's still kind of creepy.

33:12.709 --> 33:12.929
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

33:12.949 --> 33:14.372
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I'm not.

33:14.352 --> 33:31.920
[SPEAKER_00]: saying that that's what he did, but it just makes you think like if he was okay with dating Alannus when she was a teenager was that kind of his thing back then, because we just talked about how the music industry, Alannus said that there were men when she was 15.

33:32.641 --> 33:37.890
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, that that's where that's where my head goes there with him as well.

33:38.972 --> 33:39.292
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

33:40.414 --> 33:41.035
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

33:42.145 --> 33:51.431
[SPEAKER_00]: The one of the other famous, really famous songs is ironic, and we do this thing called rock with it, stop with it.

33:52.073 --> 33:55.783
[SPEAKER_00]: After all these years, where are you with ironic?

33:57.552 --> 34:09.723
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, I don't ever want to hear the entirety of jagged a little pill ever again because that album got hammered into my being so hard for a period in time.

34:09.803 --> 34:10.625
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny.

34:10.665 --> 34:12.490
[SPEAKER_01]: I was listening to it this morning.

34:13.246 --> 34:34.039
[SPEAKER_01]: before we went on and it was it was like a PTSD almost yeah like it really does take you back right yeah yeah it's one of those albums where you know it so well you never have to hear it again and it's a very good record but it just is such like a place in time for me that it's makes it a little bit difficult to listen to today.

34:34.019 --> 34:40.527
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, if I hear ironic and like the supermarket or something like that, like I'm probably going to sing along with it, but it's going to be weird.

34:41.428 --> 34:44.612
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'd rather watch the video because the video is really silly.

34:44.852 --> 34:45.593
[SPEAKER_00]: The video is good.

34:46.094 --> 35:00.311
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's, you know, she's got a certain sense of humor to her that it's kind of the opposite of some of the like really like progressive songwriting that she did, which is, which is, I think a nice balance.

35:00.331 --> 35:02.794
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you see her on stage,

35:02.993 --> 35:19.888
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like the goofiest performer, man, maybe, you know, ever, like just like, you know, nothing is like what you would consider to be like a staged performance in any way, just kind of her like walking around and vibing out and, and so like,

35:21.050 --> 35:27.081
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of the, like jagged little pill, the lyrics are kind of funny, but it's very dark humor.

35:27.181 --> 35:27.401
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

35:28.163 --> 35:32.290
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, and then I, like I just remembered the whole remember my humps.

35:32.791 --> 35:32.991
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.

35:33.692 --> 35:35.956
[SPEAKER_01]: When she did good version of my humps for somebody's.

35:36.217 --> 35:36.618
[SPEAKER_00]: I read it.

35:36.678 --> 35:37.619
[SPEAKER_00]: I just read that.

35:37.659 --> 35:39.683
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I've heard her version.

35:39.865 --> 35:40.846
[SPEAKER_00]: it's hilarious.

35:40.866 --> 35:49.899
[SPEAKER_00]: Supposedly Fergi Ferg sent her like a cake of an ass or something and a nice little as like a thumbs up or something.

35:50.860 --> 35:52.062
[SPEAKER_00]: Fergi Ferg.

35:52.082 --> 35:54.706
[SPEAKER_00]: When are we doing the Fergi Ferg 50 for 50?

35:54.906 --> 35:55.867
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what's not?

35:56.488 --> 35:57.109
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?

35:57.570 --> 36:00.273
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what who are the black eyed peas at this point?

36:00.353 --> 36:03.298
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they like, do they, are they still together?

36:03.378 --> 36:08.725
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think will and taboo and apple are still together.

36:08.823 --> 36:16.315
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, will will is loaded, uh, will does all these sort of like technology things around LA.

36:16.375 --> 36:28.415
[SPEAKER_01]: I've actually been to one or two of the things that he's put on, like I know people who know him and, you know, I, I, I, I, we'll go and record and say I do not like the Black IPs at all.

36:28.435 --> 36:29.858
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they kind of ruined music.

36:30.459 --> 36:33.143
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but, you know, I

36:35.384 --> 36:36.888
[SPEAKER_01]: Go Black IPs.

36:37.008 --> 36:37.609
[SPEAKER_01]: Go Fergi.

36:37.650 --> 36:40.296
[SPEAKER_01]: Fergi's going around messing up national anthems everywhere now.

36:43.023 --> 36:45.248
[SPEAKER_00]: So what about her solo record?

36:46.812 --> 36:47.233
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,

36:50.065 --> 37:02.201
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not very good, you know, I was a, as a karaoke a couple of months ago and somebody did Furgo Lissius and I was like, ah, this is cute, but there is not, there is not one good song on that record.

37:02.481 --> 37:19.583
[SPEAKER_01]: And Furgi is a talented woman like she can sing if she did like a straight up, if she did like a pink record or something like that, it would probably not be bad, but she's got to do all this like goofy black eyed peas, shit, and like she thinks she's a chola

37:20.390 --> 37:36.154
[SPEAKER_00]: She was taking advantage of a time and place in music where she could be the attractive white girl pretending to have swag.

37:36.815 --> 37:37.035
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

37:37.816 --> 37:38.497
[SPEAKER_01]: For if her.

37:41.762 --> 37:49.654
[SPEAKER_00]: So ironic for me, I cannot get past the lyrics to that song because

37:51.372 --> 37:54.897
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, these are just bad coincidences.

37:54.937 --> 37:56.460
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not true irony.

37:56.740 --> 37:58.202
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's even said that, right?

37:58.242 --> 38:01.627
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, yeah, you know, it's not true irony.

38:02.388 --> 38:03.670
[SPEAKER_00]: And in so an outing.

38:03.690 --> 38:10.901
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally, but whenever I hear that song, I, in my mind, I go, okay, what is ironic about this?

38:11.041 --> 38:12.063
[SPEAKER_00]: What is ironic about this?

38:12.083 --> 38:17.090
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't listen to the song, I can't enjoy it because that's where I go every single time I listen.

38:17.832 --> 38:20.856
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing ironic about reign on your wedding day.

38:21.629 --> 38:22.891
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, that stuff happens.

38:22.931 --> 38:33.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and, you know, when 10,000 spoons, when you need a knife, like, we're on you, we're, we're, we're 10,000 spoons in no knives.

38:35.010 --> 38:37.113
[SPEAKER_00]: And hey, man, like, push comes the shove.

38:37.273 --> 38:38.455
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll use the edge of a spoon.

38:38.895 --> 38:41.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they go, we gotta be resourceful.

38:42.281 --> 38:43.823
[SPEAKER_01]: You gotta be resourceful.

38:44.444 --> 38:45.826
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the making of the album.

38:46.407 --> 38:57.026
[SPEAKER_01]: So like we said, Glenn Ballard, uh, and he was, can we, can we pause for a second and just be like, so Glenn Ballard, prior to Jack, a little pill.

38:57.346 --> 38:59.009
[SPEAKER_00]: This is, this is where this is what I was gonna ask.

38:59.029 --> 38:59.791
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where you were going.

38:59.831 --> 39:03.557
[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna ask you to give us the lowdown on who Glenn Ballard was.

39:04.479 --> 39:07.905
[SPEAKER_01]: So prior to Jack, a little pill, he was best known for two things.

39:08.486 --> 39:09.928
[SPEAKER_01]: One, he co-wrote man in the mirror.

39:11.208 --> 39:20.187
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, which obviously a huge fucking Michael Jackson song and second, he wrote co-wrote and co-produced a lot of the songs on the first Wilson Phillips record.

39:20.408 --> 39:21.330
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.

39:21.350 --> 39:23.013
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so hold on for one more day.

39:23.534 --> 39:26.581
[SPEAKER_01]: All those songs, Glen Ballard, co-wrote and co-produced those songs.

39:27.002 --> 39:28.866
[SPEAKER_01]: He came out of the Quincy Jones school.

39:29.848 --> 39:29.908
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh,

39:29.888 --> 39:41.382
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's fun to do me when I think of like the idea of you know Alan is more set being this like alternative You know, whatever and she's working with like the poppy is pop producer then he is on this record.

39:41.702 --> 39:54.057
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's who Glenn Ballard is and He actually likes and I have something written down here that I'll that I'll just kind of pull out here and read so he said

39:54.897 --> 40:10.046
[SPEAKER_00]: he wanted to capture the demo energy because that's what he had as a lannis had this demo and she was shopping it and not a lot of people were interested somehow they get paired up and he's listening to this and he really likes the energy in the demo.

40:10.387 --> 40:13.733
[SPEAKER_00]: So when they actually get to recording the album,

40:13.713 --> 40:22.323
[SPEAKER_00]: he wants her to kind of do it in like the first or second take because he believes that that demo energy is where she needs to go.

40:22.383 --> 40:30.793
[SPEAKER_00]: And if she sang to perfectly, he would keep like the rougher version because he thought that that's where the edge was in the songs.

40:32.135 --> 40:33.717
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean pretty cool.

40:33.757 --> 40:37.221
[SPEAKER_00]: Like just, you know, the way in it works out the way that that album comes out.

40:37.241 --> 40:39.984
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was probably for sure smart thing for sure.

40:40.865 --> 40:43.348
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what his home studio was

40:45.218 --> 40:53.011
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be something gross I can tell not gross just kind of weird Basement Brazil in Los Angeles.

40:53.812 --> 40:54.574
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that even mean?

40:54.674 --> 41:08.998
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know Okay, that's one of the things where I'm like is this real like, you know We're pulling stuff off the internet did someone that someone like make a joke and and put it no one fixed it But no

41:09.535 --> 41:14.826
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and also like we were talking about a lot of love it earlier, like Google Glenn Ballard.

41:15.166 --> 41:16.709
[SPEAKER_01]: Glenn Ballard looks like Caitlyn Jenner.

41:18.513 --> 41:22.641
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

41:22.662 --> 41:29.856
[SPEAKER_00]: So Rolling Stones gave it a four, praising her un disguised voice.

41:30.511 --> 41:40.845
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, some other critics thought it was a calculated corporate product because of what her past was, so it's like, oh, she's the pop girl.

41:40.965 --> 41:45.651
[SPEAKER_00]: And now they're turning her into the edge thing because this is where music is today.

41:45.711 --> 41:48.034
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what some critics thought.

41:49.416 --> 41:51.118
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think.

41:51.638 --> 41:58.686
[SPEAKER_00]: In hindsight, it's just a super duper influential record when it comes to female artists.

41:59.007 --> 42:04.873
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, without this, where does that genre go for, you know, women in rock and such?

42:05.734 --> 42:12.202
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, it's influential, I think, I mean, I'm sure there are some dude artists that were influenced by that record too.

42:13.744 --> 42:18.169
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it is interesting to think of

42:18.892 --> 42:26.244
[SPEAKER_01]: like the next couple of years of artists that came out and be like, oh, so, you know, after a Lannis, there was Fiona Apple.

42:26.785 --> 42:30.170
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, there was Gwen Stefani and no doubt.

42:30.591 --> 42:40.427
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, a lot of these artists, I think, did really sort of owe a debt to a Lannis more set, not necessarily creatively, but I think her success opened the door.

42:41.217 --> 42:47.848
[SPEAKER_01]: for more of these confessional like singer songwriter like edgy types to, uh, you know, to become popular.

42:47.908 --> 42:57.424
[SPEAKER_01]: Even Taylor Swift, I think, owes kind of a debt to a Lannis Morse, like I don't think Taylor Swift would be as big as she is if jagged a little people hadn't kind of like kicked a door open.

42:58.265 --> 43:05.537
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Taylor and Beyonce have actually done like covers of of Lannis's stuff at their concerts and such.

43:05.888 --> 43:10.614
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would, I would mess with the Beyonce cover of, she would tear that shit up.

43:11.035 --> 43:11.455
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:11.936 --> 43:12.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

43:12.637 --> 43:14.079
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:14.099 --> 43:14.820
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

43:14.840 --> 43:20.387
[SPEAKER_01]: Gotta take her back to the alleged cheating lemonade.

43:21.008 --> 43:21.268
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

43:22.049 --> 43:25.954
[SPEAKER_01]: And she should have put a song from that album on is like a bonus track or something like that.

43:26.355 --> 43:26.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:27.256 --> 43:27.376
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:27.396 --> 43:27.637
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

43:28.458 --> 43:33.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Grammy Redux here, 1996.

43:34.728 --> 43:48.011
[SPEAKER_00]: Daydream, Mariah Carey, history, obviously Michael Jackson, relish Joe Nossborn, Vitality, Pearl Jam, and Jagged Little Pill, Atlantis, more set.

43:49.193 --> 43:55.183
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Jagged Little Pill 1, and I remember being very surprised by that, and, you know,

44:00.833 --> 44:08.743
[SPEAKER_01]: The album from those five that has the most replay value in 2016 is Mariah's album.

44:08.763 --> 44:10.785
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a line is number two, Michael number three.

44:13.688 --> 44:20.817
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, I mean, I, you know, I might have given that award to Mariah.

44:20.917 --> 44:23.280
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, I mean, Daydream is one of her best records.

44:23.750 --> 44:25.772
[SPEAKER_00]: Now obviously we're not doing daydream.

44:25.792 --> 44:29.255
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing history because we're doing alanus for 95.

44:29.835 --> 44:33.538
[SPEAKER_00]: We will do some Michael Jackson stuff soon.

44:33.879 --> 44:34.519
[SPEAKER_00]: Soon.

44:34.559 --> 44:35.500
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, movies are going to come out.

44:36.261 --> 44:43.407
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and we're going to have a a great episode on Mariah because Mariah has so many help.

44:43.427 --> 44:44.047
[SPEAKER_00]: So my god.

44:44.067 --> 44:44.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

44:44.848 --> 44:45.028
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

44:45.108 --> 44:48.631
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's going to great autobiography that that that's out there.

44:48.691 --> 44:53.335
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll have a great Mariah episode two.

44:53.315 --> 45:13.618
[SPEAKER_00]: from a Michael Jackson perspective, 1991, dangerous, 1995 history, the new songs on history versus the greatest hit's portion of the album.

45:15.185 --> 45:23.156
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some really good stuff, but it's also pretty uneven, I think, for what the expectation was, right?

45:23.176 --> 45:26.862
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because every time there was a new Michael Jackson album, it was just a giant event.

45:26.882 --> 45:33.331
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember the marketing for this was like, they build this giant statue of Michael Jackson and that puts on the album cover.

45:34.452 --> 45:44.787
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's kind of like, oh, this, like, I like a lot of this stuff, but like that big event, I don't feel like it ever reached the marketing.

45:45.340 --> 45:50.906
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, I mean, Mike was reacting to things that have happened in his personal life.

45:51.847 --> 46:00.376
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're right, it is a very uneven record, like there are some good songs, there are also some awful songs on that album.

46:00.917 --> 46:02.418
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the album ends horribly.

46:02.458 --> 46:10.707
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know that Mike was necessarily thinking like,

46:12.239 --> 46:14.903
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a kind of just lock it down and make good records.

46:14.983 --> 46:21.734
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he had some stuff he wanted to get off from his chest and he got it off his chest and it was, you know, successful enough and, you know, that was that.

46:22.235 --> 46:23.396
[SPEAKER_01]: We should have given him a blog.

46:23.577 --> 46:25.319
[SPEAKER_01]: He could have got all that stuff off his chest.

46:25.339 --> 46:26.621
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can't do a bad blog.

46:27.343 --> 46:28.965
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, if someone,

46:28.945 --> 46:43.076
[SPEAKER_01]: If if Michael ever actually kept journals, which I would imagine or lock somewhere deep deep deep deep in wherever if they exist, like and somebody broke those open, I can only imagine the amount of stuff that would be in there.

46:43.096 --> 46:43.617
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

46:43.637 --> 46:44.940
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

46:44.960 --> 46:46.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

46:46.724 --> 46:49.249
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, song of the year from that year.

46:50.326 --> 46:51.908
[SPEAKER_00]: kiss from a rose seal.

46:53.390 --> 46:54.732
[SPEAKER_00]: I can love you like that.

46:54.772 --> 46:59.238
[SPEAKER_00]: The all for one song written by three three writers.

47:01.081 --> 47:07.149
[SPEAKER_00]: One of us, the Joan Osborn song written by Eric bazillion, you are not alone.

47:07.830 --> 47:09.532
[SPEAKER_00]: Michael Jackson written by Ark Kelly.

47:10.513 --> 47:14.038
[SPEAKER_00]: And you ought to know Glenn Ballard and

47:14.879 --> 47:16.344
[SPEAKER_01]: You ought to know is the best song there.

47:16.364 --> 47:18.189
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've never liked kiss from a rose.

47:18.831 --> 47:19.534
[SPEAKER_01]: I love seal.

47:20.015 --> 47:22.784
[SPEAKER_01]: That song kind of like, rubbs me the wrong way.

47:23.967 --> 47:25.592
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of us is a great song.

47:26.515 --> 47:29.023
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Prince covered it and made it better.

47:29.071 --> 47:33.141
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I'm not talking about you, I'm not alone.

47:34.264 --> 47:43.246
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, you know, all for one in 1995, yeah, man, that was that that was and it was a country hit I think at the same time.

47:43.466 --> 47:44.970
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um,

47:44.950 --> 47:49.275
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, or was that I swear was I swear both of them were both of them.

47:49.295 --> 47:49.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

47:49.615 --> 47:51.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of them were country recorded by the same guy.

47:51.658 --> 47:56.483
[SPEAKER_01]: I think John Michael Montgomery recorded both those songs first and all for one covered them both.

47:56.704 --> 47:56.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

47:57.104 --> 47:58.606
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, they became pockets.

47:59.767 --> 48:03.852
[SPEAKER_01]: But you ought to know is the best written song in that group.

48:03.872 --> 48:05.073
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got the most memorable lyrics.

48:05.093 --> 48:05.634
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.

48:06.475 --> 48:07.296
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

48:08.187 --> 48:26.533
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... best new artist of that year shenaya this is kind of a powerhouse category shenaya jonoss borne alanis brandy and who does blowfish is have who do you want because to pop presented them with the award that you uh...

48:27.745 --> 48:37.148
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, a Lannis Shania in Brandy, in particular, I think, you know, still have very much have 20, 26 relevancy, and so it's Darius.

48:37.610 --> 48:39.414
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, Darius is a huge star.

48:41.559 --> 48:45.028
[SPEAKER_01]: I would probably split the vote between like a Lannis in Brandy, I think.

48:46.358 --> 48:59.434
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, in 1997, she was up for record of the year, changed the world, Eric Clapton in Babyface, a Gimmie-Win-Reason, Tracy Chapman, and pronounced this.

48:59.515 --> 49:01.097
[SPEAKER_00]: The producer, Don Giman.

49:01.958 --> 49:02.538
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Gamin.

49:02.779 --> 49:03.099
[SPEAKER_00]: Gamin.

49:03.720 --> 49:04.221
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

49:04.241 --> 49:14.914
[SPEAKER_00]: Celine Dion and David Foster, because you love me, ironic, lannis, and Glenn Ballard in 1979, smashing pumpkins.

49:16.885 --> 49:24.759
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for the reasons you mentioned about ironic that is not the first song that pops up in, you know, that would pop up as a winner.

49:25.099 --> 49:26.963
[SPEAKER_01]: I might actually go smash and pumpkins on that.

49:26.983 --> 49:34.476
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, I don't think any of those songs is like, I'm not rushing to like skip ahead to it.

49:34.636 --> 49:38.423
[SPEAKER_01]: If it shows up on shuffle, I'm not pushing it up the list.

49:38.483 --> 49:40.767
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the change of the world when it came out.

49:41.472 --> 49:49.146
[SPEAKER_01]: I did too, it's a it's a perfectly fine song, it's like one of those songs that baby face could make any sleep.

49:49.868 --> 50:02.772
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't hear it anymore as much and some the like the version that I hear often that canceled right and the version I hear is like the baby face version just him.

50:04.507 --> 50:04.967
[SPEAKER_01]: cool with that.

50:05.068 --> 50:08.210
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it, you know, there was a point in time.

50:08.290 --> 50:18.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably like right around the time change the world came out when like baby face was writing, producing everybody's record and at a certain point all of those songs started sounding exactly alike.

50:20.521 --> 50:22.483
[SPEAKER_00]: And do you remember the movie that that song was from?

50:23.124 --> 50:25.105
[SPEAKER_01]: For now and on with John Travolta?

50:25.546 --> 50:25.786
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

50:27.628 --> 50:32.472
[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't.

50:34.240 --> 50:53.970
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, change world wins, um, but eronic ironic was a giant hit as as as kind of maybe frustrated I am whenever I hear it now like it was all over the radio back then yeah like I mean I think part of the frustration is probably because it was all over the radio yeah.

50:54.878 --> 50:56.342
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right.

50:56.844 --> 51:05.630
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, before we get to our next episode, we're just going to be the top five on a lannis all of her music.

51:06.954 --> 51:08.820
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is there anything?

51:09.391 --> 51:27.957
[SPEAKER_00]: from jet from the jagged little pill time frame that we should talk about like because I feel like because the album is so well known there's like not much to unlock right there it right into in the research like not not a ton of stuff not ton of stories that we'd never heard before

51:27.937 --> 51:33.824
[SPEAKER_00]: But is there like something like, you know, when we look back, I don't know, where we, I mean, we aren't looking back.

51:33.844 --> 51:35.126
[SPEAKER_00]: We're looking back quite a while.

51:35.206 --> 51:38.330
[SPEAKER_00]: But this album stand a test of time.

51:38.370 --> 51:42.635
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is it going to be looked on as, you know, the historic thing?

51:42.675 --> 51:44.938
[SPEAKER_00]: How is she going to be looked on?

51:45.018 --> 51:46.660
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she is in her 50s now.

51:46.720 --> 51:49.264
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not that young, spunky kid she was.

51:49.664 --> 51:55.311
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how do you think she has kind of aged the persona, the artist of a Linus Morse.

51:55.831 --> 51:57.854
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think she's aged pretty gracefully.

51:57.894 --> 52:02.601
[SPEAKER_01]: She kind of jagged a little pill of forwarded her the ability to kind of just follow her own muse.

52:02.982 --> 52:04.925
[SPEAKER_01]: So now she just kind of does whatever she wants.

52:04.945 --> 52:10.373
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, she's gone to her and sell out a theater and sell out up there.

52:11.014 --> 52:14.639
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, kind of do whatever she wants.

52:14.679 --> 52:16.742
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think history will treat her well.

52:17.103 --> 52:19.847
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, like I'm thinking back and you look at

52:19.827 --> 52:40.407
[SPEAKER_01]: not just Taylor Swift and Beyonce, but just look at Olivia Rodrigo, you look at Chapel Rome, you look at Sabrina Carpenter, you look at Olivia Rodrigo in particular, I think, but all of them are sort of drawing from the concept and the idea of jagged little pill.

52:40.968 --> 52:47.134
[SPEAKER_01]: So like quiet, it's kept, I think she's more influential than we even think she is.

52:47.232 --> 52:50.699
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, this was the issue here.

52:50.719 --> 53:03.604
[SPEAKER_00]: If you get some to the Hall of Fame at some point, this was another one of those episodes where I was a little intimidated going in because I, I didn't know.

53:04.580 --> 53:23.933
[SPEAKER_00]: other than the first album like I didn't really know her songs front and back and so this is very similar to when we did the BC boys like I knew certain songs and knew that the famous songs but there was a lot of their catalog that I didn't know and then in doing the research I went on to really really appreciate.

53:25.836 --> 53:28.360
[SPEAKER_00]: I think my thought process for her

53:28.981 --> 53:56.001
[SPEAKER_00]: the songs that I like about Atlantis did not change the albums that I like did not change right a lot of these later albums there they're I don't think that they were made necessarily with the intent of becoming like pop radio darlings or anything but at the same time looking at her at 19 and 20 and 25

53:56.943 --> 54:04.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she definitely thought about stuff in a way that was kind of against.

54:05.887 --> 54:30.730
[SPEAKER_00]: the idea of pop culture or of being famous or of being, you know, the pop princess darling that she was, like she was like very much like here's who I am and this is what I believe in and this is what I'm standing for and I do wonder if because she took such a hard stand on a lot of those things,

54:31.705 --> 54:36.412
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I wonder if some of that did hurt possible albums.

54:36.432 --> 54:42.100
[SPEAKER_00]: So as though, you know, those, those three or four albums after a Jaguar little pill, they did well.

54:42.200 --> 54:45.385
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think she went platinum with the, at least the next three.

54:46.326 --> 54:54.017
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so it's not like she went to nothingness, but, you know, she was someone who stood up for herself in a way that

54:53.997 --> 55:05.037
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if some of those male music execs were a little, you know, kind of not intimidated, but maybe like, I don't know how much we're going to stand for her in that sense.

55:05.557 --> 55:11.925
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't necessarily think, I think she did the things that she will ultimately, she wanted to do.

55:11.965 --> 55:23.259
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she, you know, she, again, she followed her muse and Jagged Little Pill was so unexpectedly successful.

55:23.299 --> 55:34.112
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, this is a point in time when artists are actually getting paid for the music that they make and because she wrote all of those songs,

55:34.278 --> 55:41.069
[SPEAKER_01]: you know she she probably came away from that album cycle with like enough money to set her up for life.

55:42.131 --> 55:44.635
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that point she was like okay I could play the game.

55:45.136 --> 55:46.077
[SPEAKER_01]: I could not play the game.

55:46.398 --> 55:47.139
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna just do me.

55:47.380 --> 55:50.825
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she didn't have to make jagged little pill park too too.

55:51.006 --> 55:51.847
[SPEAKER_00]: Right exactly.

55:52.268 --> 55:52.969
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah exactly.

55:53.289 --> 55:56.134
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the alana story is kind of like

55:56.519 --> 55:58.181
[SPEAKER_01]: where the Lorna Hill story goes right.

55:59.302 --> 55:59.503
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

56:01.705 --> 56:03.067
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually a good comparison.

56:04.128 --> 56:10.296
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, also, I got it, you know, to me, it's always funny that like, Jack little pill is so 90s, right?

56:10.516 --> 56:18.966
[SPEAKER_01]: But you think about Glenn Ballard and then you think about the label that she was on and this album would not have been possible without Michael and Madonna.

56:18.946 --> 56:20.328
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

56:20.348 --> 56:20.889
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

56:21.691 --> 56:24.635
[SPEAKER_00]: In that documentary, she talks about Madonna.

56:25.697 --> 56:39.880
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's a there's a crazy story that they didn't really dig deep into, but like, Atlantis was held up at gunpoint and so she's telling this story and Madonna walks in.

56:39.940 --> 56:44.548
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're telling Madonna like, you know,

56:45.035 --> 56:53.164
[SPEAKER_00]: Lannas is a little shaken up because she just got held up at gunpoint and Madonna's like, oh man, I wish I got held up at gunpoint.

56:53.204 --> 56:54.506
[SPEAKER_00]: What an incredible story.

56:54.526 --> 57:05.118
[SPEAKER_00]: That would have been like to try and like take a little bit of the edge off of what just happened, you know, to try and, you know, maybe make a Lannas feel a little bit comfortable, you know, or whatever.

57:05.759 --> 57:07.501
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yeah, that would be something Madonna would say.

57:08.182 --> 57:11.025
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Madonna was rolling with pop.

57:13.317 --> 57:15.841
[SPEAKER_00]: right during this time or a little bit after this time.

57:16.522 --> 57:17.022
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

57:17.062 --> 57:18.244
[SPEAKER_01]: Could have been a very real thing.

57:18.985 --> 57:19.506
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

57:19.646 --> 57:20.968
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is from here.

57:21.208 --> 57:24.273
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll actually are no skips rating, which are no skips rating.

57:25.054 --> 57:29.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Check a little pill again, like I said, I, I know this album.

57:29.901 --> 57:31.703
[SPEAKER_01]: So well, I don't ever need to listen to it again.

57:32.044 --> 57:33.246
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to give it a solid seven.

57:33.626 --> 57:35.249
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to give it a night.

57:35.950 --> 57:40.656
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think my thought of like, what is this album?

57:40.676 --> 57:43.240
[SPEAKER_00]: And how much of this stuff do I really know?

57:43.439 --> 57:45.627
[SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty much right on in memory.

57:45.647 --> 57:52.572
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yep, here are all the songs I know here are the ones that I don't really know that well, but you know, I think they mostly fit together pretty well.

57:53.092 --> 57:56.856
[SPEAKER_00]: She's done a couple of different versions of this album too.

57:56.876 --> 57:59.218
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't actually want on the 10th anniversary.

57:59.258 --> 58:08.328
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on the 20th anniversary, I think she did this crazy package of like the original album paired with like a bunch of these different things.

58:08.388 --> 58:11.691
[SPEAKER_00]: And like 10 reissues of the songs that didn't make the album.

58:11.711 --> 58:13.013
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's tons of jagged little.

58:13.053 --> 58:14.414
[SPEAKER_01]: There's lots of material out there.

58:14.995 --> 58:15.195
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

58:15.615 --> 58:17.958
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back for the top five on a lens more a set.

58:18.018 --> 58:22.002
[SPEAKER_00]: So for Mike, I am double G, see you when we see you piece out.