The Janet Jackson History: Before & After Control | 50 For 50

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[SPEAKER_01]: party people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's WG here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to everyone for checking us out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And here is the next episode.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, what's up?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go on everybody.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, hey, people.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a live stream edition of 50 for 50.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we're not doing this because we think we're bringing in tons of eyeballs here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We actually don't have that many YouTube subscribers, but the reason why we're doing this is because it is a holiday as we're recording this.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we both have the day off.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we decided that we might as well just throw this up on a Monday as per usual, but, you know, it's kind of cool to do a live stream and if anyone pops in and says hi, we will shout you out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But otherwise, yeah, we're just going to put it up live and see how it works and test it out for the podcast listeners, nothing should be changed other than if in case some people do comment now bring them up to the stage and we'll shout them out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, Mike, we're going to talk about an album that came out in 1986.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Can we officially call control dot dot dot 40 whyo?

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was kind of waiting for Janet to bring that out as a hashtag or something like that because, you know, it's appropriate.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why we're kind of doing it in this way is we, you know, we, the inside baseball of it all is that we've pre record things and then we kind of put them out in the timelyist way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of forgot about the anniversary.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the anniversary actually passed a couple weeks ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I told Mike, I was like, oh, we missed this one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, but we'll just record and then immediately put it out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we're only a couple of weeks.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We're still in the park.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, you know, this is, we don't usually do it this way.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like we've had, we've had some episodes that are recorded that are kind of waiting, and, you know, I think LL's like, you bump me for Jen, it like, too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We had a bumpy for Jen.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Do we bump, LL for Jen, or do we bump TLC for Jen?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we bump, we'll give y'all the inside scoop.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We bumped Bruno Mars.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But we did that specifically because Bruno's got an album coming out in a couple or I think the end of next week actually and so we'll put that out to kind of, you know, he's going to get a lot of press soon so we'll have that episode out and then I think we'll probably also do a side thing when we do actually get to listen to it or we can kind of do like a podcast review of the album.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, and then we do have TLC and we do have LL.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They're all just waiting in the wing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So they just got pushed back in extra week here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk about Janet Jackson.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So 1986, 10 years old, my friend.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not even.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't even came out at the beginning of the year.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we were nine.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So where are you?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what's going on?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Where are you musically with your fandoms?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, in 1986, I'm in fifth grade.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I am living in Michigan at this time, suburbs of Detroit and going to elementary school

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[SPEAKER_02]: you know, whatever was popular at the time.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it was like, Prince and, you know, early hip hop, so like Roxanne Roxanne and Houdini and, you know, run DMC, but also listening to like, when and, you know, again, just kind of like whatever was on a radio, whatever was popular at the time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I am, I think, I'm heavily into Stevie Wonder's, in squared circle, is that the album?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, but yeah, that came out like later in 85.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm heavily into that album.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: At, you know, that's what my pops was into at this point had Stevie Wonder been on the Cosby Show yet or that have been of the year later.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, man.

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[SPEAKER_02]: He's saying I just called to say I love you, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Didn't you?

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it was either 85 or like early 86.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just head over heels into steven.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I don't know, jamming on the one.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What I don't know yet is that what had predated me was like really Stevie's apex.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would learn that soon, but I'm into part-time lover, man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm nine years old singing part-time lover, and I don't know what the hell that that's all of you.

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[SPEAKER_02]: A very age-appropriate song.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But me and Luther singing background on that song.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but yeah, but that's where I like my fandom is, you know, Huey Lewis and Stevie Wonder and whatever else my dad was listening to at that time now I didn't always vibe with what my dad was listening to he would go through some interesting phases and like really you that big of a willy Nelson fan dan really Did you pop something to willy he would go through these phases man?

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[SPEAKER_01]: He would go through like a country phase and then there would be this phase where I sort of God

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[SPEAKER_01]: seven o'clock on a Saturday morning, the linda ronst at, uh, spank the Mexican album, just like blasting through the house.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think you did that purposely too, like to wake us up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my gosh, what you don't know is that in my brain, you are formulating that this thing is bad because I don't want to hear it because it's waking me up.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, so yeah, 86.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm big time in the, in the Stevie and you know, whatever's on kind of kind of kind of have like my little boombox and so I'm kind of dialing in on the radio stations like hip hop has not really crossed over that much into my life yet.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So now, 1986 also where's your Jackson's family fandom.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's already high.

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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm already like a super Jackson's fan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I

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[SPEAKER_02]: came out the womb, and being like a super Jackson's fan.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I was already like on high alert for all of that stuff.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So would you have known a whole lot of about Janet yet or would you have like, because you know, she's still pre 86.

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[SPEAKER_01]: what I would have known her from like I literally didn't know that she actually made albums yet like what my my memory is like oh controls were Janet kind of comes out but I would have known her more for different strokes yeah I mean or that good times of course yeah so I first became uh you know I first knew who Janet was because of TV because of good times good times is one of the first shows I remember watching at home

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[SPEAKER_02]: So, good times, then different strokes, and then she was on fame for a year and I really, really love fame.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I loved all those shows, but when her first album came out in 1982, so Christmas 1982 was the first year I ever got records as a Christmas gift.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I got 245, 27 inch records.

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[SPEAKER_02]: When was the girl's mind?

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[SPEAKER_02]: And the other was young love by Janet Jackson, which was her first single.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So I was aware of Janet singing career pretty much from the jump.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What was the song that she sang on different strokes?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the magic is working.

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[SPEAKER_02]: That was actually the be side of young love.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I very much remember that, that episode for sure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Is that, oh, man, that's one where Willis and Kimberly when they're we're in a group together.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And all I remember is she's singing in the house.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she does a full performance for them inside the house.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I actually, I rewatched that episode maybe like a year ago.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I went down at different strokes rabbit hole.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the premise of the plot of the episode

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[SPEAKER_02]: Willis and Kimberly win a band together and Janet Jackson's character Charlene was like, oh, I can sing too.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe Charlene pushes Kimberly out of the group or something like that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Jots.

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[SPEAKER_02]: We're selling drama.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know what Kimberly singing voice was necessarily, but she's probably not a better singer than the jazz.

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[SPEAKER_02]: She won no Janet Jackson.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so an interesting what I want to do is we're going I want to go through all of Janet's albums because I feel like what is so interesting about Janet.

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[SPEAKER_01]: is what she's going on in her life, how she's feeling, who she believes she is in that moment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think it kind of is reflected in the music that she's making.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to go through all of her albums and just kind of get the vibe of where we think she was.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But before that, like we usually do, I just wanted to give you a couple of quick tidbits from Music of 1986.

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[SPEAKER_01]: January 30th, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, Ohio holds its first introduction ceremony with many rock pioneers attending.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So not only is control 40 years old, but the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the ceremony is 40 years old as well.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I should add the ceremony was not in Cleveland, it was in I'm pretty sure it was in New York City.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But the museum obviously the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame museum, which I've been to before exists in Cleveland, but I don't think that opened until like the late 90s.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So it was a few years between

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[SPEAKER_02]: like the organization existing in them having hall of fame ceremonies and they're being a place where the actual physical hall of fame was.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're a music fan, I strongly suggest you go to Cleveland, check the museum out, I actually want to go back because I haven't been in a long time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The 28th annual Grammy Awards in L.A. hosted by Kenny Rogers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ital Collins is no jacket required out of the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: How many year?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: USA for Africa's we are the world wins record and song and shot A wins best new artist.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Very controversial at the time because Whitney Houston who put her debut album out in 1985 was not nominated due to a technicality.

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[SPEAKER_02]: which was she had been on a record before with her with her aunt no she was on she was like the duet partner on like a teddy pender grass record and they disqualified her because of that the Grammy has changed the rules a million and one different times over the years I mean you know we talked about Lauren Hill who won the Grammy for Best New Artist despite you know putting out two albums with the foodies so they've changed the rules Teddy P yeah Teddy P

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, March 8th, uh, Whitney's album tops the charts and remains there or remains on top for seven weeks, um, so she was doing, she was doing fine.

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[SPEAKER_02]: No, yeah, she didn't need that Grammy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she she got she got a few more.

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[SPEAKER_01]: fast forward August, Queen performed the band's final concert of the magic tour, which would be the last performance of the band with Freddie Mercury, and John Deacon later Mercury would be diagnosed in 1987, passing away in 1991, and Deacon would retire from the band in 1997.

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[SPEAKER_01]: September 27th, a tour bus carrying Metallica crashes and Sweden killing their basis Cliff Burton.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, damn.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a great way when this is your, this is the way that your band travels and it is also the reason why one of your members passes away, that's tough.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean tour buses,

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[SPEAKER_02]: considering how many musicians traveled by bus, I mean, not good.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually interesting that there have been so few accidents involving major musicians.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I mean, you know, he was a pivotal member of Metallica in the very early days and you know, Metallica replaced him and then they went on to become one of the biggest bands in the world.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I want, like I said, I wanted to go through Janet's albums and, you know, we'll just quickly kind of give a little bit of thought about what you think of the album, but I think it kind of tells her story interestingly, so 1982.

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[SPEAKER_01]: the self-titled Janet Jackson bubble gum album supervised by her pops.

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[SPEAKER_02]: So 1982 Janet is like 14 16 16 okay so when control comes out she's 20 yeah 19 about to become 20 she's also she's a maybe like us okay so yeah 10 she's 10 years older than we are any memories of the

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, you know, again, I was, you know, her single was one of the first records that I ever that I ever had purchased for me, I didn't listen to the album in full until many years later, but it's it's it's it's for a 1982 on the album like it's pretty solid.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just like a kitty pop album.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's, you know, there's some bops on there.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then in 1984, dream street, seen as a bit of a commercial disappointment at the time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I went back to listen to both of these albums and they're kind of totally what you would expect, totally fine, but I don't know that like when you hear these albums and you hear the production behind the album,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like her voice sounds so simplistic.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you hear what jam and Lewis do to her voice, her voice becomes very unique.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So like the production of those albums, I don't think did her really much justice at all.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, Dream Street is not a great record.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the most interesting thing about it is that Michael's on it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: What's the song that he's on?

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[SPEAKER_02]: don't stand another chance it's the first song on the album and you can I mean you can hear I'm pretty clear with like he's ad living through it and this is released like at the height of thriller so I think they were like we're gonna go Mike on the album and hope that he can like carry it to glory and that didn't work and then control which we'll talk about we have talked about too much about it right now but at this point in her life she kind of

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, gives pops the heisman a little bit like, you know, this choices, these choices, you know, not not the best choices for for my career, but, you know, I appreciate you.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I need, I need something else.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a very diplomatic way of saying that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: that she can do, what is a lot of it is like a social justice album and take it the places that she took it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of amazing, right?

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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, at that time, there were a lot of artists that made message records and made records about social justice, what they weren't pop artists.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was, you know, Tracy Chapman.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was YouTube.

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[SPEAKER_02]: It was public enemy.

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[SPEAKER_02]: it was all of these sort of like edgy, edgy or kind of artists whereas, you know, for Janet Jackson as a, you know, R&B pop artist to come out and really like say something in her music was, you know, I think some people saw it as daring, some people were like, you know, who's this girl trying to tell us about like what's going on in the world?

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[SPEAKER_02]: But it ended up being like a huge success, you know, rhythmation was the first album to have seven top five singles.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, you know, she did a thing and, you know, I understand the initial, maybe the, the initial wave of confusion because it's not like, I mean, if you listen to control, it is very clear.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In Jenna's young life, she had not had some of the experiences that maybe some other 19 year olds would have had and so now three years older she's telling you know she's talking about these really so worldly things and so I understand but.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she also does it in a very smart way, you know, Michael is doing similar things as well with with some of his songs, you know, he's looking at some of the, you know, some of the injustices around the world.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I just, I just still find it very interesting because today, what if Kendrick was like, you know, I want to talk, I want to just do a lot of songs about.

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, this poor country or, you know, and Kendrick to, he does talk a lot about injustices, but yeah, I think Kendrick tried that and it didn't, it missed him around, didn't really get the right response then.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like the death of your, of your sales.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like an album where you go, okay, this one's for me, and I'll do the one, the commercial one, the next one.

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[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that also kind of speaks to where humanity was at in 1989 versus, you know, where we were at in 2021 or 2022, whenever Kentrix album came out.

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[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, to an earlier point you made, I think Janet was sheltered from life in a lot of ways, but I also think Janet got to see some shit.

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[SPEAKER_02]: in her younger years that we would never imagine a 19-year-old or a 20-year-old or somebody even younger seeing.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll talk more about it later, but certainly in her personal life she'd been through some stuff.

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[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I think all of us are many of us, anyway, from the ages of 19 to 22, like that's a big growth period in life.

19:26.675 --> 19:27.816
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

19:28.677 --> 19:34.264
[SPEAKER_01]: So Janet period,

19:34.919 --> 20:04.032
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she's found a different version of herself as a, you know, someone in their mid 20s and it is a very sexy album and I think this is like the perfect, like if you look at this version of her, like this young woman, very like she's kind of come out of her own skin is like, oh my gosh, she's like a sex symbol now when before she was like, oh, the baby sister of the Jackson's, right?

20:04.012 --> 20:17.511
[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit like different versions of this same kind of style, but this was the best one of this like sexy version of Janet Jackson, I thought when it came to the overall, you know, overall album.

20:18.132 --> 20:23.019
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and again, like it was a transition period for her, you know, she made poetic justice.

20:24.602 --> 20:29.749
[SPEAKER_02]: She, you know, done all these different things and it was just kind of like the next step in her evolution.

20:39.871 --> 20:51.063
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to Michael for mentioning that it does sound like an R&B version of a public enemy album and in some ways, it's it's noisy.

20:51.323 --> 20:58.030
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then, you know, for the next album, Janet went out and she was like, I'll just get shut to you to do a record with me.

20:58.311 --> 20:58.511
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

20:59.111 --> 20:59.312
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

21:00.132 --> 21:05.618
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and then velvet rope is different, right?

21:05.698 --> 21:08.241
[SPEAKER_01]: The themes are different.

21:09.588 --> 21:18.048
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people really like this album, but there are other folks who thought, little message for me in some ways.

21:18.350 --> 21:18.872
[SPEAKER_01]: But,

21:19.983 --> 21:24.369
[SPEAKER_01]: We want our people to stand on things.

21:24.449 --> 21:26.653
[SPEAKER_01]: We want them to have opinions on things.

21:27.494 --> 21:35.305
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I enjoy it when the whole thing of if you don't stand for, if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything.

21:35.365 --> 21:40.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I was glad to see Janet take these opinions on certain things.

21:40.212 --> 21:42.715
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it could be a little message a little preachy sometimes.

21:42.795 --> 21:48.083
[SPEAKER_01]: But she then wove it into a really good album at the same time.

21:48.215 --> 22:09.818
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, velvet rope just seems like a really personal record and she's talking about depression and she's talking about, you know, she's talking about the three

22:10.102 --> 22:23.461
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, velvet rope is certainly not her biggest selling album, but I think it's the one that people feel most like represents her in some ways, like it feels like it's the most personal record she put out.

22:24.243 --> 22:38.303
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people who are in her life, also going through some experiences that that she's kind of living with them right and then we take a little bit of a turn.

22:38.468 --> 22:45.100
[SPEAKER_01]: the next four albums, kind of fit a similar vibe.

22:45.761 --> 22:49.849
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like she's chasing something with these next four albums though.

22:50.370 --> 22:54.417
[SPEAKER_01]: I think all for you is not a bad album.

22:55.319 --> 23:01.590
[SPEAKER_01]: No, de me to Joe 20 years old discipline are not the,

23:01.570 --> 23:20.727
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the same kind of transcendent albums that she was making those seem a little bit like rehashes of of what she thought was working, but she's also experiencing age and getting older and moving out of the limelight in some ways, there's the the album that, you know, she hurt maybe her.

23:20.707 --> 23:28.697
[SPEAKER_01]: highest celebrity is the Super Bowl thing, but it's an infamous thing to write a lot of people, right?

23:28.817 --> 23:40.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like if the Super Bowl thing happens today, I think there would be a lot of the same outcry from a specific demographic, but to another demographic they'd be like,

23:41.311 --> 23:54.479
[SPEAKER_01]: We see that all the time, so it was a time and place thing with the Super Bowl performance with Justin, but a lot of this is kind of like her, the view of who she is kind of diminishes in some eyes at this point.

23:55.061 --> 23:55.742
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,

23:56.212 --> 24:06.015
[SPEAKER_02]: It did feel over the course of those four albums like she was maybe being less true to herself and more like I need to get Hicks.

24:06.035 --> 24:11.368
[SPEAKER_02]: I think all for you and to me to Joe are actually pretty good albums.

24:11.787 --> 24:23.663
[SPEAKER_02]: It just, you know, like you said, she was aging, maybe the idea of what was contemporary was maybe passing her by a little bit, you know, she certainly started to explain with different producers.

24:23.743 --> 24:31.514
[SPEAKER_02]: She came out of the Jimmy Jamm and Terry Lewis wheelhouse and first she was working with like Rock Wilder on all for you, Don 3G.

24:31.914 --> 24:32.174
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

24:32.275 --> 24:32.395
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

24:32.495 --> 24:37.982
[SPEAKER_02]: And she worked with, you know, JD and Kanye and all these defeating German, you pre-at this point.

24:38.042 --> 24:38.503
[SPEAKER_01]: You.

24:38.483 --> 24:41.847
[SPEAKER_02]: I still think it at Chris Rock-Joke, man.

24:41.868 --> 24:43.890
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember what it was.

24:43.910 --> 24:50.018
[SPEAKER_02]: Germaine, JD must be packing downstairs because I don't get it.

24:50.719 --> 24:54.304
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did watch, um, there was a documentary that came out.

24:55.406 --> 24:59.211
[SPEAKER_01]: It was an A&E documentary, four-part documentary series, I guess, is technically correct.

24:59.851 --> 25:07.782
[SPEAKER_01]: And she had almost nothing but kind things to say about Germaine.

25:07.829 --> 25:08.510
[SPEAKER_01]: They broke up.

25:09.711 --> 25:24.988
[SPEAKER_01]: She kind of started laughing and she was like, yeah, she cheated, he cheated and it was kind of like, it was like, I mean, I remember when I heard the story and I was like, do what a dummy, right?

25:25.049 --> 25:30.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, but the way Dermaine explains it and I actually want your take on this explanation.

25:31.316 --> 25:33.398
[SPEAKER_01]: On this talk series, here's how he explained it.

25:34.492 --> 25:41.025
[SPEAKER_01]: me dating Janet Jackson made me way more attractive to other females.

25:42.468 --> 25:45.494
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just being a man.

25:45.775 --> 25:47.819
[SPEAKER_01]: That's his literal explanation.

25:48.660 --> 25:51.927
[SPEAKER_02]: That's I mean, that's stupid.

25:52.261 --> 26:00.976
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if keep it in your pants, take the attention, be like, okay, girls like me that's cool, but I'm going home with like the number one stunner right now.

26:01.036 --> 26:05.704
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't need all that other stuff because I got the best thing at home.

26:06.205 --> 26:10.632
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know, man, him and Eric Beney need to do it like you together or something like that.

26:10.652 --> 26:11.093
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

26:11.393 --> 26:12.936
[SPEAKER_02]: What what they were thinking.

26:13.507 --> 26:16.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Jayce, Jayce said never go full Eric Bene.

26:20.647 --> 26:22.993
[SPEAKER_01]: Jayce did almost win Eric Bene himself, though.

26:23.125 --> 26:27.631
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think a lot of that was made up for headlines.

26:27.832 --> 26:40.850
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't necessarily know that that was, I mean, nobody knows what was the case except for the people who were involved in it, but it, it, it, that whole jazzy Beyonce cheating thing felt very, uh, click baby.

26:41.310 --> 26:44.315
[SPEAKER_01]: You're saying salon just right hand was made up.

26:45.356 --> 26:45.977
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,

26:47.054 --> 26:54.704
[SPEAKER_02]: fair, but you know, I again, it like I said, so you're here's what you're here's what you're saying.

26:56.887 --> 26:58.850
[SPEAKER_01]: Lemonade for lemonade to exist.

26:59.691 --> 27:04.557
[SPEAKER_01]: We needed JZ to maybe even pretend to cheat on Beyonce.

27:05.038 --> 27:05.839
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you say.

27:05.920 --> 27:09.706
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, I mean, it feels, it felt to me very contrived.

27:10.327 --> 27:25.870
[SPEAKER_02]: I obviously don't know what happened, or if something happened, but the vibe that I got through the whole like lemonade for 44, all that stuff, it just felt like it was very, it was PR generated and not an actual series of events that happened.

27:25.850 --> 27:37.184
[SPEAKER_01]: So Jay-Z is on wax apologizing for cheating on Beyonce, and you think that that is fictionalized just as much as some of his earlier mafia music.

27:37.204 --> 27:40.188
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what did Jay-Z have to win or lose in that case?

27:40.228 --> 27:49.199
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the narrative was already like, oh, this dude is a punk for, you know, cheating on Beyonce or almost cheating on Beyonce or whatever it was.

27:49.659 --> 27:50.440
[SPEAKER_02]: So

27:50.842 --> 27:55.686
[SPEAKER_02]: adding to that narrative ultimately makes you some more records.

27:57.648 --> 28:00.390
[SPEAKER_01]: But Rihanna took so many shots over her years.

28:02.052 --> 28:03.693
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Rihanna's actually know it.

28:04.554 --> 28:08.517
[SPEAKER_02]: They all made out great because Rihanna, J, and Beyonce are all billionaires.

28:08.738 --> 28:09.378
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.

28:09.818 --> 28:10.599
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.

28:11.320 --> 28:12.261
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, back to Janet.

28:12.801 --> 28:19.667
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so then so that that all for you through discipline, time frame takes us through 2008.

28:20.862 --> 28:26.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Then Janet goes away for seven years from actually from recording.

28:26.732 --> 28:33.843
[SPEAKER_01]: And in 2015 comes back with unbreakable, which was a really, really good comeback album.

28:34.204 --> 28:34.504
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.

28:34.845 --> 28:35.767
[SPEAKER_01]: It was mature.

28:35.807 --> 28:45.182
[SPEAKER_01]: It was what we wanted to hear from Janet at this moment, what we needed from her as fans of hers in 2015.

28:45.466 --> 28:50.332
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it was a very mature, thoughtful record.

28:50.352 --> 28:55.758
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, OK, I'm not trying to, I'm not going to have this person jump on the record.

28:55.778 --> 28:57.981
[SPEAKER_02]: I have this person produced the record just to have hits.

28:58.361 --> 29:00.344
[SPEAKER_02]: She got back in the studio with Jimmy and Terry.

29:01.265 --> 29:09.955
[SPEAKER_02]: She sang about the stuff that had gone on in her life, you know, losing her brother.

29:11.234 --> 29:18.084
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, going through the trials and tribulations that she went through and, you know, it, it's, I think one of her better records.

29:19.266 --> 29:25.736
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that is, you know, we haven't heard from her in over 11 years at this point.

29:26.116 --> 29:27.258
[SPEAKER_02]: She hasn't made a record in 11 years.

29:27.278 --> 29:28.099
[SPEAKER_02]: She's been on tour.

29:28.140 --> 29:29.121
[SPEAKER_02]: I think constantly.

29:29.261 --> 29:30.102
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, for sure.

29:30.303 --> 29:31.244
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

29:31.264 --> 29:32.466
[SPEAKER_01]: So we,

29:33.695 --> 29:40.850
[SPEAKER_01]: There were talks of an album called Black Diamond, which I think kind of got swallowed up by the pandemic.

29:40.870 --> 29:43.055
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think COVID kind of took that out the frame.

29:43.917 --> 29:51.653
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder if that ever sees the light a day, or some version of that, but now Janet is

29:51.633 --> 29:52.174
[SPEAKER_01]: mother.

29:53.136 --> 29:57.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I know she had the the the the father of her child.

29:57.744 --> 29:59.107
[SPEAKER_01]: They got divorced.

29:59.127 --> 29:59.968
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they got divorced.

29:59.988 --> 30:01.271
[SPEAKER_02]: And they got divorced.

30:01.291 --> 30:03.174
[SPEAKER_02]: And to clarify, she is the mother of a child.

30:03.194 --> 30:10.367
[SPEAKER_02]: She's not mother in the way they, you know, I mean, she also is mother in the way they're, you know, but, you know, she's a mommy.

30:10.928 --> 30:11.970
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at

30:12.372 --> 30:14.456
[SPEAKER_01]: She had her child 50.

30:14.497 --> 30:15.358
[SPEAKER_01]: 50 years old.

30:15.719 --> 30:17.302
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's incredible.

30:17.543 --> 30:18.445
[SPEAKER_01]: How about demographics?

30:19.307 --> 30:20.890
[SPEAKER_01]: And then not only that.

30:21.231 --> 30:25.620
[SPEAKER_01]: But then she then went back on tour after having this child at 50.

30:26.482 --> 30:27.223
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw her.

30:27.264 --> 30:28.185
[SPEAKER_01]: She was dope.

30:28.206 --> 30:30.330
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, got her knees, man.

30:30.310 --> 30:33.876
[SPEAKER_01]: She knows how, I guess, the calisthenics be working for her.

30:33.896 --> 30:37.142
[SPEAKER_01]: She's step because she still dances hard in her stuff.

30:37.503 --> 30:44.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that is kind of like the, like the, the discography version of her.

30:44.875 --> 30:49.664
[SPEAKER_01]: But now let's focus back on control and kind of the stuff that she's doing.

30:49.704 --> 30:52.048
[SPEAKER_01]: So we mentioned her acting career.

30:52.028 --> 31:07.708
[SPEAKER_01]: um she did the variety show stuff with with the jacks and families yeah uh so that was like 70s uh mid 70s to uh 7677 um she's playing penny on good times from 77 through 79

31:07.688 --> 31:25.073
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you are a certain age, the first episode where they intro Penny and Kim feels mother burns her with the iron like that shit is not to use a bad punish it is branded on your psyche like I still think about that 45 years earlier.

31:26.234 --> 31:37.473
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a moment where you kind of wanted to hide from the television because you didn't want to see and you weren't going to see it.

31:37.974 --> 31:44.525
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was like, look, you could put scream seven out this year.

31:44.565 --> 31:50.636
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's nothing in scream seven that's going to be scarier than that moment on good times.

31:50.656 --> 31:51.297
[SPEAKER_01]: Not bad.

31:51.952 --> 31:55.378
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, different strokes, 80 to 84.

31:55.479 --> 31:58.765
[SPEAKER_01]: She plays Charlene, who's Willis's girlfriend.

31:58.805 --> 32:05.838
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess she was in a show that I've never seen in 79, 80 called a new kind of family.

32:05.858 --> 32:07.741
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've heard about that.

32:07.942 --> 32:12.390
[SPEAKER_02]: I have looked on YouTube for episodes and have yet to find one.

32:13.298 --> 32:16.283
[SPEAKER_01]: She plays Jojo Ashton, is the character.

32:16.923 --> 32:20.889
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in 84.85, she plays Clio from in fame.

32:22.252 --> 32:28.942
[SPEAKER_01]: And then movie-wise, something we talked about in our two-pop episode, just a little bit.

32:29.302 --> 32:34.330
[SPEAKER_01]: Poetic Justice in 1993 is her starring debut role.

32:36.293 --> 32:37.855
[SPEAKER_01]: I think.

32:38.105 --> 32:40.909
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot left on the table in that movie for her.

32:40.969 --> 32:48.520
[SPEAKER_01]: She would do better things after, you know, I know John Singleton is his past away.

32:48.800 --> 32:50.683
[SPEAKER_01]: So we cannot have this conversation with him.

32:51.424 --> 32:54.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Couple more takes for some of these scenes with Miss Janet.

32:54.809 --> 32:56.331
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder how hard that would have been.

32:56.632 --> 33:01.058
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell Janet what to do here in 1993?

33:01.865 --> 33:06.031
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can't imagine, you know, I mean, I don't know.

33:07.193 --> 33:08.856
[SPEAKER_02]: Pulling it just is to me as Pock's movie.

33:10.699 --> 33:11.179
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

33:12.782 --> 33:12.942
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

33:13.062 --> 33:13.943
[SPEAKER_02]: Nutty professor.

33:13.984 --> 33:15.546
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe Regina Kings would be second.

33:16.307 --> 33:16.568
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

33:17.809 --> 33:18.230
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

33:18.250 --> 33:18.490
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

33:18.711 --> 33:19.192
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

33:19.352 --> 33:20.534
[SPEAKER_01]: She's, she's amazing.

33:20.814 --> 33:20.994
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

33:21.014 --> 33:21.315
[SPEAKER_01]: She is.

33:21.896 --> 33:22.296
[SPEAKER_01]: She's okay.

33:22.637 --> 33:24.159
[SPEAKER_01]: Nutty professor to the clumps.

33:24.500 --> 33:28.085
[SPEAKER_01]: She plays a professor opposite of Eddie Murphy.

33:28.105 --> 33:29.307
[SPEAKER_01]: The clumps.

33:29.489 --> 33:33.134
[SPEAKER_01]: not as good as the first one that he did.

33:33.354 --> 33:37.600
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just a rehash, like you got to rehash it to take advantage of it.

33:37.680 --> 33:42.606
[SPEAKER_01]: But it does lead to, it doesn't really matter, which was a big hit.

33:43.708 --> 33:44.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

33:44.028 --> 33:46.892
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she does two Tyler Perry movies.

33:47.593 --> 33:48.674
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did I get married?

33:48.815 --> 33:50.897
[SPEAKER_01]: And why did I get married part two?

33:51.658 --> 33:58.247
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe when she was doing the second movie,

33:58.227 --> 34:13.693
[SPEAKER_01]: When the news comes out about her brother, right, yeah, I think Tyler Perry was on that docu-series us talking about and he mentioned, you know, what happened or his memory of when when they actually had to tell her or when she found out that they were on set.

34:15.076 --> 34:21.166
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she played in four colored girls.

34:21.226 --> 34:22.068
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that one.

34:22.388 --> 34:23.931
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good movie.

34:26.155 --> 34:31.022
[SPEAKER_02]: To me, actually, maybe her best movie or her best acting in a movie.

34:31.784 --> 34:34.548
[SPEAKER_01]: Now here's this is some internet research here.

34:34.568 --> 34:37.472
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we've said in the past, you know, and it comes to this stuff.

34:37.492 --> 34:40.457
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really someone says something and then you write it down.

34:40.537 --> 34:41.699
[SPEAKER_01]: So take that with a grant.

34:41.739 --> 34:43.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Take this with a grant assault.

34:43.021 --> 34:44.784
[SPEAKER_02]: We are living in the post truth era.

34:45.825 --> 34:53.597
[SPEAKER_01]: Supposedly, she was the original choice for Trinity in the Matrix, but she decided not to do it.

34:55.298 --> 35:07.756
[SPEAKER_01]: She was, this is the one that I find hard to believe, just because it's, I don't imagine the same actors are involved, but in Jerry McGuire, she was considered for Renee Zellwigger's role.

35:09.098 --> 35:13.704
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the way the movie is, Tom Cruise is opposite of Renee Zellwigger.

35:14.645 --> 35:22.757
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Tom Cruise would have quite a problem step into Janet Jackson in real life for an movie, both.

35:23.969 --> 35:30.482
[SPEAKER_02]: I can see it happening on film, I think Janet and real life would shut that down.

35:33.207 --> 35:43.227
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be like one of the more awkward even film conversations, I think, because Janet is pretty shy herself.

35:43.628 --> 35:51.838
[SPEAKER_01]: Tom is very deliberate, almost premeditated and I don't even want to think about it.

35:51.858 --> 35:54.341
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be weirdness matching weirdness.

35:54.501 --> 35:55.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

35:55.022 --> 35:55.242
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

35:56.003 --> 36:02.350
[SPEAKER_01]: So then also X men in 2000, she was in talks to play Storm, which Hallie Barry made her own.

36:02.811 --> 36:08.117
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm actually glad for that one because Hallie rocked it, but Hallie's been out there talking like,

36:08.300 --> 36:12.484
[SPEAKER_01]: There ain't no storm with me and these new X-Men stuff with Marvel.

36:12.664 --> 36:15.927
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, don't, don't, don't let people tell you any different.

36:15.947 --> 36:16.747
[SPEAKER_01]: How he is chilling.

36:16.787 --> 36:17.768
[SPEAKER_01]: How he's laying in a cut.

36:19.370 --> 36:20.511
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

36:20.531 --> 36:22.612
[SPEAKER_01]: So control.

36:23.553 --> 36:32.221
[SPEAKER_01]: How much of an influence do you think her probably what she considers to be a mistaken marriage to James DeBarge?

36:33.121 --> 36:37.345
[SPEAKER_01]: How much do you think that affected what came, what was created?

36:39.856 --> 36:41.881
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to grow up after something like that, right?

36:41.901 --> 36:43.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Like something like that changes you.

36:43.585 --> 36:45.329
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she got married at 18.

36:45.370 --> 36:55.755
[SPEAKER_02]: And James DeBarge was dealing with quite a few personal issues.

36:57.659 --> 37:03.172
[SPEAKER_02]: and six months after they got married, they had the wedding annult.

37:03.834 --> 37:07.423
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's gotta be so much subtext.

37:07.443 --> 37:10.791
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously there's a ton of stuff that we don't know about, but

37:11.429 --> 37:28.706
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Janet has said in interview, you know, she said on the documentary that, you know, she was married to somebody who was an addict and had a lot of mental health issues and like that's got to be hard to process at 18 years old, like how do you.

37:30.768 --> 37:36.794
[SPEAKER_02]: Particularly, and then as a celebrity, you're both celebrities on top of that, like how do you even like manage that.

37:37.114 --> 37:38.736
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

37:39.982 --> 37:54.986
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a Jimmy Jam is told this story many times, but the kind of the origin story of the album is that they were working with, is it John McCain?

37:55.667 --> 37:57.110
[SPEAKER_01]: John McClain, John McClain.

37:57.290 --> 37:58.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like Bruce Willis in die heart.

37:58.973 --> 38:00.595
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, that's what I was confused.

38:00.615 --> 38:03.640
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I don't want to get this wrong, cause yeah, you're gonna think we're talking about die heart.

38:03.981 --> 38:06.124
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, so,

38:06.830 --> 38:14.342
[SPEAKER_01]: they were working with him and they were going to produce the who's the woman from Atlanta Kstar.

38:14.660 --> 38:18.024
[SPEAKER_02]: Barbara, uh, Sharon Bryant.

38:18.044 --> 38:18.284
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

38:18.905 --> 38:19.105
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

38:19.365 --> 38:23.450
[SPEAKER_01]: Sharon Bryant decided she did not want to work with Jimmy and Terry.

38:24.431 --> 38:34.041
[SPEAKER_01]: So John McClain, now this is Jimmy James version of this story by the way, I've just heard him say it so many different times on all the different podcasts because he's one of the all time Jimmy, Jimmy, love a podcast.

38:34.061 --> 38:37.065
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like the greatest podcast guest of all time.

38:40.268 --> 38:41.089
[SPEAKER_01]: He

38:41.069 --> 38:42.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy, come on our podcast.

38:42.540 --> 38:43.044
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.

38:43.305 --> 38:44.434
[SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, can you imagine?

38:45.159 --> 38:46.388
[SPEAKER_01]: He said that.

38:46.840 --> 39:16.189
[SPEAKER_01]: John McLean came back to them and said sorry guys, I'm kind of embarrassed Sharon decided she's not interested who else would you want to work with on our roster and so they went down the roster and they both stopped at Janet and they were like we would love to work with Janet he's like okay yeah we can put a few songs together and they're like no we want to do the whole thing so that was their idea from jump was to work and to kind of recreate the who who Janet's or Janet sound.

39:16.169 --> 39:16.569
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

39:16.630 --> 39:40.759
[SPEAKER_01]: So the, and if you remember our new edition episode, we talked about how they similarly worked with the fellas in that they had this period of Let's just chitchat like let's talk about what you guys are doing now, how you guys are feeling and they wrote some stuff down and that influence the songwriting of of a heartbreak.

39:40.739 --> 40:04.755
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they I don't know if they started it here or if it but the origin story of control is very similar and control is two out two years before that yeah I think you know there's no heartbreak without control yes so they talked to Janet she does not know that this is part of the process she just thinks that they're just trying to get to know her.

40:04.735 --> 40:18.846
[SPEAKER_01]: So when they come into the studio and they have songs ready for her and she's reading them and she's like, oh, so when we had these conversations, we were actually working and they're like, yeah, like, that's how this thing works.

40:18.978 --> 40:41.526
[SPEAKER_01]: And nasty, my favorite story is nasty is created off of a story of them going to the club with Janet and Janet is kind of out there, you know, no pops, you know, it's just just her and the fellas and Jimmy and Terry and so people are stepping up to Janet.

40:41.506 --> 41:02.191
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess there are one or two or I don't know how many guys who are just, you know, probably just hitting on her and she's kind of struggling a little bit and Jimmy interior watching her and she's kind of like looking over for help and I think even someone else was like, hey, you know, you see what's going on and they're like, yeah, yeah.

41:03.132 --> 41:05.775
[SPEAKER_01]: So Janet comes back and tells them.

41:06.245 --> 41:25.502
[SPEAKER_01]: like why didn't you guys help me like what was going on there and they're like you figured it out like you said you're here like you were able to do it she's like yeah yeah you know like I was able to stand on my own in a sense but she said in that conversation according to Jimmy that she doesn't like nasty boys.

41:26.123 --> 41:29.028
[SPEAKER_01]: So hence the song nasty.

41:29.288 --> 41:30.951
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's how that comes about.

41:31.031 --> 41:36.981
[SPEAKER_01]: So so many fun stories because they soup to nuts that whole album.

41:37.802 --> 41:38.022
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.

41:38.323 --> 41:47.237
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and yes and no, there's two songs on there that Jimmy and Terry didn't produce.

41:48.483 --> 41:51.872
[SPEAKER_02]: which like he doesn't know I'm alive, which is produced by some guy completely out of there or a bit.

41:51.892 --> 41:54.779
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Pleasure Principle, which was actually produced by Monty Moyer, who is the white guy from the time.

41:54.799 --> 42:04.585
[SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

42:04.750 --> 42:06.972
[SPEAKER_02]: But everything else was produced by jam and loosen.

42:07.032 --> 42:15.502
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, when you have one producer or one main producer on a project that gives erected continuity, it makes it sound better overall.

42:16.343 --> 42:28.716
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, you know, you just kind of look at the places both of them were in their careers, where, you know, Jimmy and Terry had had a bunch of R&B hits, but they were just, they were on a come-up,

42:29.303 --> 42:31.345
[SPEAKER_02]: Janet had a couple of R&B hits.

42:31.806 --> 42:33.948
[SPEAKER_02]: She was kind of on to come up.

42:34.488 --> 42:39.053
[SPEAKER_02]: They met each other, I think, at a very impactful point for all of them in their lives.

42:39.434 --> 42:47.422
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, John McCain needs to write a book because, you know, John's been a record executive for, you know, 40, 45 years, something like that.

42:47.482 --> 42:48.923
[SPEAKER_02]: Some ridiculous, three long period of time.

42:49.284 --> 42:53.328
[SPEAKER_02]: His work that major labels is a co-executor of the Michael Jackson estate.

42:54.429 --> 42:59.074
[SPEAKER_02]: And nobody really knows who he is and what he's about.

42:59.257 --> 43:10.073
[SPEAKER_02]: He feels like one of those shadowy kind of people who's in like all the business and figuratively and probably literally knows where a lot of bodies are buried.

43:10.594 --> 43:13.098
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would love to know he needs to do podcast.

43:13.118 --> 43:14.820
[SPEAKER_02]: Jimmy give some of your podcast to John McCain.

43:15.601 --> 43:19.768
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that Like that there's a Clayton John.

43:19.788 --> 43:20.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

43:20.268 --> 43:22.131
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, John McCain is the guy who ran for president.

43:22.151 --> 43:23.734
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I screwed it up.

43:23.754 --> 43:25.857
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

43:25.877 --> 43:26.698
[SPEAKER_01]: I think

43:27.033 --> 43:32.281
[SPEAKER_01]: Questlove had a list of like the goat guests and I want to say he was on it.

43:32.922 --> 43:33.863
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.

43:33.883 --> 43:34.104
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

43:34.584 --> 43:35.446
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

43:35.566 --> 43:35.866
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

43:35.906 --> 43:47.263
[SPEAKER_01]: So the album was recorded in Minneapolis, a part of getting Janet away from her inner circle and from her father from her parents.

43:47.804 --> 43:56.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Jo Jackson basically told Jimmy and Terry that, you know,

43:58.218 --> 44:01.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sound like no press.

44:01.964 --> 44:24.242
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like famously, right, Paula Abdul is hired as a choreographer for the music videos and they know of Paula because she was a Lakers girl and Jackie was she dating Jackie she was dating Jackie who was married at the time.

44:25.555 --> 44:37.025
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's some stuff there, but yes, Paula was Jackie's girlfriend and that's, you know, at the end of the day how she came into the Jackson's orbit.

44:37.886 --> 44:41.248
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, she said that she considers Janet like a little sister.

44:41.389 --> 44:45.352
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Janet considers her a big sister or not.

44:45.372 --> 44:50.636
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what their relationship is, but Paula spoke very fondly of their time together.

44:51.377 --> 44:54.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the

44:55.137 --> 44:57.521
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they were pretty cool back then.

44:57.941 --> 45:04.952
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that, you know, there was some drama when Janet left A&M Records and signed a version, which was Paula's record company.

45:05.913 --> 45:19.173
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, whatever happened there happened, but I do think that they are the reconciled at some point in the last couple of years, because I think Paula presented Janet with some kind of award.

45:19.193 --> 45:19.974
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know.

45:20.275 --> 45:23.980
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, again, just polish your right

45:26.086 --> 45:28.051
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it would be honest though?

45:28.071 --> 45:28.934
[SPEAKER_01]: No, question.

45:28.994 --> 45:42.610
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it would not be at all because there's there is something we're going to do a side bar episode of about American Idol and I have a I don't know Paula obviously.

45:42.826 --> 45:48.672
[SPEAKER_01]: But I didn't have a discussion with somebody who knew her through American Idol at some point.

45:48.692 --> 45:49.833
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll talk about that.

45:49.893 --> 45:52.837
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll show up in this feed, and you'll know it when you see it.

45:54.178 --> 45:58.903
[SPEAKER_01]: But what would you title the book if it was Paula Abdul?

45:59.003 --> 46:00.124
[SPEAKER_01]: Straight up?

46:00.144 --> 46:00.905
[SPEAKER_01]: OK.

46:00.925 --> 46:03.728
[SPEAKER_01]: Better than Rush Rush.

46:03.748 --> 46:05.610
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only one thing to call it straight up.

46:07.051 --> 46:12.377
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, Rush Rush famously.

46:12.644 --> 46:15.167
[SPEAKER_01]: Were they dating at that, what was the story?

46:15.187 --> 46:17.649
[SPEAKER_01]: No, she was, I think she was married to a million a million.

46:17.769 --> 46:18.530
[SPEAKER_01]: At that time, yeah.

46:18.870 --> 46:20.832
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm trying to think of the time.

46:20.872 --> 46:21.893
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so Kiana would it?

46:21.913 --> 46:25.297
[SPEAKER_01]: Would that have been point break?

46:25.317 --> 46:25.737
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.

46:25.817 --> 46:26.958
[SPEAKER_02]: It was after Bill and Ted.

46:27.459 --> 46:27.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

46:28.300 --> 46:29.581
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Aaronhood too.

46:30.582 --> 46:32.664
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Kiana for me is like Bill and Ted.

46:33.025 --> 46:34.926
[SPEAKER_02]: Matrix, I don't remember anything in between.

46:35.147 --> 46:37.369
[SPEAKER_01]: Point break is good to Kiana.

46:37.389 --> 46:39.411
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't remember what the year that point break came out.

46:39.691 --> 46:41.453
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

46:41.956 --> 46:44.884
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so album is a hit.

46:45.064 --> 46:46.909
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a favorite song on the album?

46:47.832 --> 46:50.700
[SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, uh, all of them?

46:50.720 --> 46:58.260
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, we'll do our no skips rating here at the end, but one of the benefits of this album is that it's just short.

46:58.797 --> 47:09.112
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it's nine songs, 10 songs, whatever it is, you know, I control when it came out, it got off to a sort of slow start and built into a hit.

47:10.514 --> 47:17.825
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and you think about it, like Janet was, this was her third album, she's coming off of two albums that did not sell very well.

47:18.386 --> 47:21.570
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably if control doesn't sell, she gets dropped.

47:23.553 --> 47:24.855
[SPEAKER_02]: So,

47:24.835 --> 47:41.292
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think, you know, Kudos to, I mean, the music, the music is great, but also, you know, the people that work for the record company busted the behinds to make that record a hit or at least, you know, like saw lightning in a bottle when it was happening and, you know, what ended up becoming

47:41.558 --> 47:42.379
[SPEAKER_02]: a huge record.

47:42.840 --> 47:54.756
[SPEAKER_02]: I think even, well, maybe not, definitely not now, but I think at the time, she was the youngest artist to have a number one album since Stevie Wonder like 20 years before.

47:55.377 --> 47:58.141
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it was a pretty big deal.

47:58.882 --> 48:06.553
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to shout out this podcast that I listened to

48:06.719 --> 48:10.406
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not only about kind of what we do, which is we kind of go through the history of the thing.

48:11.407 --> 48:21.465
[SPEAKER_01]: They also break down the music because one of the guys who does the podcast, like he's a musician, and he got the stems from like four songs on control.

48:21.525 --> 48:26.314
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jimmy Jam is,

48:26.665 --> 48:54.934
[SPEAKER_01]: singing some of the layered vocals behind Janet's vocals on like a couple songs, so like just like understanding them breaking it down and then when I think when Jimmy Jam was on, the Quest Love podcast he was talking about the instrumentation and how they did some of the songs and he was talking about using keyboards and Quest Love was like oh yeah you use this instrument

48:54.914 --> 49:21.073
[SPEAKER_01]: number one oh seven on the keyboard and press it and quest of it's like you didn't even like you didn't even go for like any crazy and and Jimmy jamb basically said all these people who put all of the work and putting in the presets like they put money into that thing like I don't need to change it like it that's good enough for me they have musicians do this stuff that's good enough for me but the way that they made control

49:21.053 --> 49:40.294
[SPEAKER_01]: sounded very like DIY like oh we like this boom and then but then when you hear broken down and you hear all the stems put together it is very sophisticated but just the description of what they were doing in 1986 is very DIY but that was also kind of music production in that time frame

49:40.274 --> 49:52.515
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, now your computer will do everything that you feed, but they're like stitching it and taping it and like just doing all, you know, they have like two seconds of thing that they can record on this thing.

49:52.595 --> 49:57.523
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a, it's a here the whole conversation about the, the musicality of the album.

49:57.503 --> 50:17.262
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very, you know, it was a very analog process back then, but also, you know, these samplers, all these machines were just coming out and, you know, jam is kind of like a keyboard with, so he was basically just, it feels like he was just kind of playing with new toys and trying to figure out what he could, you know, get out of that.

50:17.483 --> 50:19.647
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting that you mentioned

50:19.829 --> 50:37.673
[SPEAKER_02]: that they stripped the record down of the stems and you could hear Jimmy singing on it because I've always like if you listen to what had you done for me lately you can hear there's a deep voice like shadowing Janet's through the entire record and I'm like is that just her slow down or is that actually like a dude singing behind her?

50:38.455 --> 50:41.579
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is very likely Jimmy Jam.

50:42.019 --> 50:46.866
[SPEAKER_02]: But also

50:47.167 --> 50:53.455
[SPEAKER_02]: He used to do all of these lives on IG during the pandemic.

50:53.475 --> 50:59.623
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to say he had, you know, did like a zoom hang with with with jam.

51:00.324 --> 51:04.429
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were going over the control song and they broke down the stems of control.

51:04.489 --> 51:06.071
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wish I remember this dude's name.

51:06.492 --> 51:08.434
[SPEAKER_02]: British dude had like a shaved head.

51:09.575 --> 51:12.880
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody will remind me of his name at some point with super big on the internet for a minute.

51:12.900 --> 51:15.503
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I guess kind of fell back.

51:15.770 --> 51:30.053
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, just to hear, like, those songs sound so basic and simple and kind of like sparse, but then you hear all the stuff that went into them and you're like, oh, this is just like, you know, mad science happening.

51:30.213 --> 51:30.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:30.934 --> 51:35.902
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, imagine the ear that you have to have at the same time.

51:36.103 --> 51:40.630
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because when you break it down track by track,

51:40.812 --> 51:51.795
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, okay, this is something very simple and then we're going to add this and it's like, okay, it gets, and then like, but you're adding like seven things to create the sound, which is, uh, becomes really amazing.

51:52.196 --> 51:52.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man.

51:53.579 --> 51:55.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so.

51:55.257 --> 51:59.442
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to do what I like to call the Grammy Redux.

52:00.524 --> 52:05.690
[SPEAKER_01]: The 1987 Grammys control is nominated for album of the year.

52:05.810 --> 52:06.411
[SPEAKER_01]: Does not win?

52:06.471 --> 52:08.273
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember what won that year?

52:08.694 --> 52:09.976
[SPEAKER_01]: Grace Land by Paul Simon.

52:10.176 --> 52:10.396
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

52:11.357 --> 52:23.813
[SPEAKER_01]: The other nominations were so Peter Gabriel, the Broadway album, Barbara Streisand, and back in the highlight, my guy, Stevie Winwood,

52:24.603 --> 52:30.932
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about where control fits in that list?

52:31.533 --> 52:38.664
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, control is my favorite album of those five by like leaps and bounds.

52:39.104 --> 52:44.232
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if this probably shows my naivete but I don't think I've listened to Graceland before.

52:44.583 --> 52:46.986
[SPEAKER_02]: Really, Grace Lund is actually a really good album.

52:47.146 --> 52:51.132
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Paul Simon working with African musicians and he caught a fair amount of crap for it.

52:51.272 --> 52:55.818
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen videos from that album, but I don't know if it's in the whole.

52:56.619 --> 53:10.438
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I mean, I'm not a Barbara Streisand fan, so, you know, whatever, but I mean, I own all four of those other albums, and they're all good, but to me, control is just, you know, controls here,

53:10.520 --> 53:15.868
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Peter Gabriel Steve Windwood and Paul Simon are here and like Barbara Streisand is here.

53:17.370 --> 53:17.930
[SPEAKER_02]: Poor babbs.

53:20.554 --> 53:32.511
[SPEAKER_01]: So Interestingly, um, some of the trivia we already talked about a little bit of it.

53:33.622 --> 53:38.508
[SPEAKER_01]: ranked number eight on pitch forks best album of the 80s.

53:38.568 --> 53:43.193
[SPEAKER_01]: You are better acquainted with some of these websites that and magazines that created this list.

53:43.734 --> 53:47.098
[SPEAKER_01]: Does pitch forks list mean anything to you?

53:48.660 --> 53:49.741
[SPEAKER_01]: You want me to say some stuff.

53:49.761 --> 53:50.282
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you get it?

53:50.302 --> 53:51.864
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I don't just ask you.

53:52.004 --> 53:56.149
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't follow these lists and like these these authors and stuff.

53:56.169 --> 53:59.112
[SPEAKER_02]: So I I'll say it like this.

53:59.893 --> 54:00.574
[SPEAKER_02]: Um,

54:01.043 --> 54:07.635
[SPEAKER_02]: I have very dear friends who have been writers and editors at pitch for opinions.

54:07.735 --> 54:14.828
[SPEAKER_02]: I respect very, very much, but do I trust, or do I trust a pitch forklift?

54:15.129 --> 54:22.562
[SPEAKER_02]: No, of course not, you know, I particularly know that.

54:23.420 --> 54:24.882
[SPEAKER_02]: the average age.

54:25.303 --> 54:32.954
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, first of all, the majority of pitch fork writers don't come from a culture that I would understand Janet Jackson's control, and a context in which he was made.

54:33.575 --> 54:35.197
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of these writers are younger.

54:35.998 --> 54:42.347
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of them are not culturally part of the conversation there.

54:42.788 --> 54:46.353
[SPEAKER_02]: So I, you know, all lists you take with the grain of salt.

54:46.393 --> 54:47.855
[SPEAKER_02]: This list, take with the grain of salt.

54:48.316 --> 54:50.980
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I mean, I,

54:52.259 --> 54:57.649
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure I read whatever that list was when it came out and then just kind of like, okay, whatever.

54:59.111 --> 55:01.556
[SPEAKER_01]: The what have you done for me lately.

55:01.576 --> 55:10.572
[SPEAKER_03]: Andy, Is Eddie Murphy wrong?

55:11.530 --> 55:32.813
[SPEAKER_01]: that uh... yeah that like the song is great but also eddy cuz ross the next year yeah um... so he's using something very timely and pop culture at that moment to tell his joke and so it almost makes that song or at least the title of that song more famous than it would be uh... i'll try to shout out to him

55:32.793 --> 55:40.801
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, worth mentioning, rock hymns first song, Eric B. is president, was an answer record to what have you done for me lately?

55:41.302 --> 55:41.722
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no way.

55:41.742 --> 55:42.122
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know that.

55:42.142 --> 55:49.850
[SPEAKER_02]: If you listen to those his last rock hymns last row, see, I mean, I'm not going to recite it for you, but then he's like, oh, and then you ask me, what have I done for you lately?

55:50.671 --> 55:51.932
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it, it, yeah.

55:52.553 --> 56:00.741
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Janet Jackson, they're rock, rock hymns, two people you didn't think would be connected,

56:02.223 --> 56:20.957
[SPEAKER_02]: Janet historically didn't really get a lot of wrap versus on her stuff from what I remember the summary make this but like yeah it took a minute I mean I think Janet's been on more rappers records than rappers had been on her records like you know she did

56:21.747 --> 56:42.726
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... massive now she did the buster rhymes record um... she did a met you know she's on met the man's album she did a song with chingy uh... you know she did a song with nellie nellie the nellie was very familiar yeah but as far as rappers on her records i think you know the first was a bd uh... with the remix uh... for all right

56:42.706 --> 56:55.961
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then, you know, she had a couple of, uh, uh, like rapper's juvenile exes with her, but the first rapper to actually be on a janiracker was Chuck D. I mean, that and that makes sense.

56:56.542 --> 56:56.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

56:56.663 --> 56:57.264
[SPEAKER_01]: That's to why.

56:57.866 --> 56:59.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Right Chuck, of course.

56:59.632 --> 57:03.240
[SPEAKER_02]: They, you know, they had political justice pocket and Janet could have done a record together.

57:03.340 --> 57:07.911
[SPEAKER_02]: Although I just finished your boys book and yeah, I don't know that that was going to happen.

57:08.312 --> 57:13.303
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Ruby in the documentary, I think it was Ruby in the documentary series said,

57:15.275 --> 57:29.510
[SPEAKER_01]: that she didn't think Janet would ever say this, but she thought that they actually did have a little bit of chemistry, but there was a clear differentiation in the super-stardom back then, right?

57:29.630 --> 57:31.012
[SPEAKER_01]: Pock is kind of on the come-up.

57:31.192 --> 57:36.538
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure Janet is just like, yeah, you know, I know he's kind of somebody, but, you know, who cares, really?

57:36.558 --> 57:41.383
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, when Poeta Justice came out, two Pock was,

57:41.903 --> 57:45.186
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, how can I say this?

57:46.067 --> 57:48.429
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he'd only had one album out.

57:49.710 --> 57:51.592
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, that album did not do very well.

57:52.373 --> 57:59.259
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, in terms of the popularity scale, again, like Pock was here, Janet's like here.

57:59.800 --> 58:04.024
[SPEAKER_01]: And Pock thinks he's there with her, but he's not really.

58:04.304 --> 58:09.649
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's the, there's the conversation that he had on the air scenario.

58:10.220 --> 58:14.625
[SPEAKER_01]: where he was like, they asked him to take an HIV test.

58:15.506 --> 58:19.351
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, no, and Janet had a problem with that.

58:19.731 --> 58:22.094
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, we are just going to kiss.

58:22.614 --> 58:25.718
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of insulting to ask me to do this.

58:26.479 --> 58:33.527
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he said, if we were going to actually have sex, I will take a thousand HIV tests.

58:33.507 --> 58:45.775
[SPEAKER_01]: And but that was on the Arsenio Hall show like that he flat out had that conversation, which I'm sure she was not very happy about him, you know, having that conversation, but yeah, that was that was the thing.

58:46.336 --> 58:49.263
[SPEAKER_01]: So by the way, Jeff Perlman's book is what Mike's talking about.

58:49.283 --> 58:52.731
[SPEAKER_01]: We we have an interview with Jeff about the book.

58:52.711 --> 59:02.541
[SPEAKER_01]: It influenced our all eyes on me episode as well so you can check that out and there's links in our podcast and our YouTube feeds if you want to.

59:02.901 --> 59:03.882
[SPEAKER_01]: But the book is really good.

59:03.902 --> 59:05.744
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very journalist, which I like.

59:05.804 --> 59:17.456
[SPEAKER_02]: The book is excellent and I am, you know, not to sidebar too much, but I'm looking at all these comments on my Jeff socials and looking through the internet and I'm just like people on internet is stupid.

59:17.476 --> 59:21.520
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this was part of my conversation with him, which is.

59:21.702 --> 59:36.141
[SPEAKER_01]: the legend of Tupac versus who Pock may have been because the people who live in that fairytale land of what they want, wanted Tupac to become, but he didn't live long enough to become that, right?

59:36.561 --> 59:49.318
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's also, I mean, not to make this another Tupac podcast, but Pock very much had compartmentalized portions of his life, like he lived in four different places.

59:49.378 --> 59:50.299
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

59:50.940 --> 59:51.000
[UNKNOWN]: And

59:50.980 --> 01:00:02.953
[SPEAKER_02]: nobody knew the previous iteration of Tupac and look Tupac was a black man and I think to be a black person means that you have to be different things to different people.

01:00:03.413 --> 01:00:09.460
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're going to be in an art school area, you're going to be that part.

01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:13.124
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're going to be around your homeboys in the hood, you're going to be that part.

01:00:13.604 --> 01:00:19.671
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're going to be, you know, you know, you're going to, you have to

01:00:21.052 --> 01:00:22.861
[SPEAKER_02]: code switch.

01:00:22.881 --> 01:00:28.227
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, two-pock as an actor in particular, just

01:00:28.865 --> 01:00:53.286
[SPEAKER_02]: had a lot of different code switching parts from themselves and it was a Gemini and I'm not a big astrology person but you know as a fellow Gemini like there are parts of yourself that you showed a different people and I don't think most people nowadays are really set up with enough common sense and enough empathy to understand that one person can be many, many, many different people.

01:00:53.992 --> 01:00:54.253
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:00:55.296 --> 01:00:57.803
[SPEAKER_01]: A simulating has been a big part of my life for sure.

01:00:58.144 --> 01:00:58.906
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:00:59.047 --> 01:01:07.090
[SPEAKER_01]: Being bi-racial like you kind of don't, you don't have one thing that you fit in so you have to fit into multiple things to feel accepted.

01:01:07.120 --> 01:01:37.127
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just, I mean, to me now, I think, as a, you know, as a mature person, it's not even about assimilating, it's about taking all the parts of yourself that you have gathered from all of this life experience that you've had with this variety of different people and right of different situations, putting them all together and knowing that all those parts, you know, of your different lives make up who you are and then bringing that full stuff to whatever situation you're in.

01:01:37.107 --> 01:01:46.081
[SPEAKER_02]: When I talk to people, like it doesn't matter who I'm in a room full of, there are times when I'll sound a little bit more Brooklyn than other times.

01:01:46.442 --> 01:01:49.587
[SPEAKER_02]: There are times when I'll sound a little more gave in time than other times.

01:01:49.627 --> 01:01:51.009
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you dare to come out and go?

01:01:51.049 --> 01:01:52.631
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Brooklyn in the house.

01:01:53.372 --> 01:01:56.297
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I had.

01:01:56.277 --> 01:02:06.571
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, to me now it's not code switching, it's just utilizing all these different parts of you and they come out when they come out.

01:02:06.691 --> 01:02:11.758
[SPEAKER_01]: How much of that is making you more comfortable versus making the other people are comfortable.

01:02:11.778 --> 01:02:18.707
[SPEAKER_02]: It's making me more comfortable because I mean also like I'm the type of person now, I like making people uncomfortable.

01:02:18.687 --> 01:02:22.874
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I, you know, you, you and L.L.

01:02:22.894 --> 01:02:27.162
[SPEAKER_00]: with the wish you would on the, on the, on the Mississippi.

01:02:27.583 --> 01:02:31.329
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm, I'm, I'm fairly comfortable with all the different parts of me.

01:02:32.090 --> 01:02:40.565
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think part of that is like almost a defense mechanism, like I'm going to show you all of me.

01:02:41.347 --> 01:02:43.851
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm going to see how comfortable you are with it.

01:02:45.113 --> 01:02:56.486
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the part of this journey while we're doing it through music is just the idea of turning 50 and at this point, people got to assimilate to me.

01:02:56.566 --> 01:02:57.287
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just kidding.

01:02:57.767 --> 01:03:08.940
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, that's part of it, right, which is we are so much more comfortable and who we are that we don't really have to try and fit in everywhere.

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:13.365
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I'm good, like for instance, now there are opportunities.

01:03:13.345 --> 01:03:26.141
[SPEAKER_01]: like my wife, Crystal, you know, in her work setting, I'm going to go into that work setting, and I'm going to big her up to her people because those are her people.

01:03:27.303 --> 01:03:42.222
[SPEAKER_01]: And in a different setting, like, say with my friends, I'm not, I'm just being who, you know, I'm just being me,

01:03:43.349 --> 01:03:57.851
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm comfortable talking about this stuff with you, but also we have, you know, years and years and years of discussions that I can lean on to know how you would feel about this thing or that thing or how I would set you up to talk about it.

01:03:57.891 --> 01:04:01.476
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you know, it's just the experiences that we've lived.

01:04:01.456 --> 01:04:19.804
[SPEAKER_01]: have been amazing, but also they've taught us lessons, also some of them have been have given us trauma and going back to Janet, that is why I love her career so much is because you can see the things that she's going through in her music.

01:04:20.244 --> 01:04:29.218
[SPEAKER_01]: She is at some point she's like in her 30s and she probably feels like she's in her most sexually empowering

01:04:29.620 --> 01:04:34.207
[SPEAKER_01]: But her fan base looks at her and goes, okay, we get it.

01:04:34.327 --> 01:04:37.091
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we know you love sex.

01:04:37.171 --> 01:04:39.374
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you've been telling us like it's cool.

01:04:40.015 --> 01:04:42.899
[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe she overdue it to the audience a little bit.

01:04:42.979 --> 01:04:46.264
[SPEAKER_01]: And they want her back, which is what she gave us with unbreakable.

01:04:46.544 --> 01:04:46.905
[SPEAKER_02]: One very good.

01:04:47.285 --> 01:04:53.053
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man, the 20 YO and discipline phase, I was like, Janet, I get it.

01:04:53.734 --> 01:04:55.216
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's cool.

01:04:55.637 --> 01:04:56.278
[SPEAKER_02]: Sex is great.

01:04:56.819 --> 01:04:57.720
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

01:04:58.038 --> 01:04:59.541
[SPEAKER_02]: You love it, that's great.

01:04:59.921 --> 01:05:04.830
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, time to like close it up a little bit.

01:05:04.990 --> 01:05:19.735
[SPEAKER_02]: Or, you know, make create a different layer, do something different because after a while, all of those like little girl voice, like, you know, erotic songs started to sound alike after a while, and then it got boring.

01:05:19.935 --> 01:05:22.780
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't hate the videos, but.

01:05:22.760 --> 01:05:26.044
[SPEAKER_01]: Anytime any place, that's a classic.

01:05:26.224 --> 01:05:28.387
[SPEAKER_01]: The songs themselves became a little tired.

01:05:28.527 --> 01:05:30.670
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, she's chasing things you can tell.

01:05:30.830 --> 01:05:36.898
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she's chasing things in her career, where as she should have been the one being chased, I think.

01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:39.641
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:05:39.701 --> 01:05:45.449
[SPEAKER_01]: So before we get out of here, well, actually, we're going to do our top five here on this live stream.

01:05:45.709 --> 01:05:47.391
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll break it up on the podcast.

01:05:47.932 --> 01:05:50.355
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll keep it in two episodes on the podcast.

01:05:50.395 --> 01:05:51.957
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get out here,

01:05:52.291 --> 01:05:55.755
[SPEAKER_01]: there's the Justin Timberlake conversation and we'll probably do it.

01:05:55.775 --> 01:06:10.014
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to actually have a Justin conversation, but since we have Janet, one of the things she said on that doc, Randy her brother Randy, did Randy have any sort of management in her career because they seem really close.

01:06:10.534 --> 01:06:14.940
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe Randy has managed her ever since she got divorced from homeboy.

01:06:15.443 --> 01:06:16.987
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, for weight from Renee.

01:06:17.529 --> 01:06:20.196
[SPEAKER_01]: No, from her son, her baby father.

01:06:20.337 --> 01:06:21.400
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay, got it.

01:06:22.463 --> 01:06:25.712
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were talking about Justin, obviously post-supable.

01:06:26.173 --> 01:06:27.597
[SPEAKER_01]: And Randy was like,

01:06:28.268 --> 01:06:30.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Did he ever reach out to you or something?

01:06:30.733 --> 01:06:33.417
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, we had conversations with friends.

01:06:33.538 --> 01:06:38.166
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I don't know if that was immediately after this scenario or not.

01:06:39.108 --> 01:06:48.505
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know there's a certain section of fandom that believes Justin Timberlake is the anti-Christ based on it.

01:06:48.485 --> 01:06:57.968
[SPEAKER_01]: based off of this situation, the Super Bowl thing where he pulls off her bra and expose all of those people should have done all those people should have gone out and bought to meet a Joe.

01:06:58.749 --> 01:06:59.391
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

01:07:00.173 --> 01:07:01.937
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know you've been

01:07:02.828 --> 01:07:06.533
[SPEAKER_01]: more forgiving than others about Justin's participation in that.

01:07:06.553 --> 01:07:10.017
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think some of it is like Janet's a grown woman like she handled it.

01:07:10.217 --> 01:07:11.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't need to go save her.

01:07:11.939 --> 01:07:14.683
[SPEAKER_01]: Like she, you know, she didn't have fallout over it though.

01:07:14.703 --> 01:07:16.625
[SPEAKER_01]: She got blamed a lot of things.

01:07:16.865 --> 01:07:30.422
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do think her career suffered her career suffered quite a bit although the sort of downward slope of her career was going to happen

01:07:30.925 --> 01:07:41.562
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like the way that she looks at that situation is, if she wanted to, she could have buried him in some way.

01:07:42.644 --> 01:07:45.549
[SPEAKER_01]: But she knew that his career was kind of on the upswing.

01:07:46.691 --> 01:07:50.076
[SPEAKER_01]: And she kind of was like, you do you.

01:07:50.257 --> 01:07:53.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't want you to,

01:07:53.234 --> 01:07:56.358
[SPEAKER_01]: have to take on the same thing that I'm going to have to take on.

01:07:56.378 --> 01:07:57.800
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't have to do that for me.

01:07:58.460 --> 01:08:01.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think she was taken off of MTV.

01:08:02.205 --> 01:08:06.851
[SPEAKER_01]: She was disinvited from the Grammys that year, a Grammys in which I think he performed on.

01:08:08.012 --> 01:08:15.602
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you would thought, think of it from a friend's standpoint, yeah, like Justin should have been like, I'm not doing this unless you bring Janet back in X, Y, and Z.

01:08:15.622 --> 01:08:18.105
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's a fight that he was not going to win.

01:08:18.145 --> 01:08:19.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And

01:08:19.947 --> 01:08:22.679
[SPEAKER_01]: She was kind of like, you know what, I'm looking out for you.

01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:25.974
[SPEAKER_01]: You do you do not take this burden with me.

01:08:26.155 --> 01:08:28.827
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that how you see that situation?

01:08:30.123 --> 01:08:33.827
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, first of all, it's a multilayered situation.

01:08:34.749 --> 01:08:36.411
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say that first.

01:08:36.451 --> 01:08:45.421
[SPEAKER_02]: And the second thing I'll say is that nobody knows what happened in that situation in the aftermath of that situation other than Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake.

01:08:46.022 --> 01:08:49.646
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything anybody else says is speculation because nobody else was there.

01:08:50.207 --> 01:08:51.509
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, here's what I think.

01:08:52.550 --> 01:08:54.392
[SPEAKER_02]: A, I think that,

01:08:55.385 --> 01:09:00.653
[SPEAKER_02]: Janet intended to do something controversial on a Super Bowl.

01:09:01.574 --> 01:09:10.087
[SPEAKER_02]: One, because I remember reading MTV.com in the days leading up to the Super Bowl, and it teased that Janet was going to do something controversial.

01:09:10.588 --> 01:09:12.110
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it was pre-planned.

01:09:12.271 --> 01:09:12.791
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one.

01:09:13.432 --> 01:09:23.147
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two, the year before at the VMAs, that was a year where like Madonna came out and did the thing with Brittany and Christina where she kissed both of them.

01:09:24.173 --> 01:09:27.598
[SPEAKER_02]: being a competitive person, I think Janet was trying to win up Madonna.

01:09:29.741 --> 01:09:30.702
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's number two.

01:09:32.404 --> 01:09:50.890
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the response that she got the negativity and, you know, CBS and Les Moonbess and MTV

01:09:50.870 --> 01:09:52.071
[SPEAKER_02]: She wasn't expecting that.

01:09:52.852 --> 01:09:55.676
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that took her by surprise.

01:09:58.019 --> 01:10:01.563
[SPEAKER_02]: I also think that, like, let's look at it this way.

01:10:02.204 --> 01:10:03.666
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was Janet show.

01:10:04.026 --> 01:10:06.489
[SPEAKER_02]: Janet invited Justin to be on the show.

01:10:07.630 --> 01:10:07.911
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.

01:10:07.931 --> 01:10:09.312
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like Justin came out.

01:10:09.332 --> 01:10:13.257
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, oh, we have this whole plan to do this and do this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:10:13.277 --> 01:10:14.038
[SPEAKER_02]: Janet came out.

01:10:14.078 --> 01:10:14.899
[SPEAKER_02]: It was Janet show.

01:10:14.979 --> 01:10:17.282
[SPEAKER_02]: Justin was like

01:10:18.494 --> 01:10:22.139
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two, Justin is 15 years younger than Janet is.

01:10:23.622 --> 01:10:27.988
[SPEAKER_02]: So, he's, you know, Janet who was a 36, 37 year old woman.

01:10:28.429 --> 01:10:30.512
[SPEAKER_02]: He is Justin who's a 22 year old guy.

01:10:30.873 --> 01:10:47.758
[SPEAKER_02]: And regardless of the racial elements of, and I know that that plays into it, like I'm not stupid, you know, the reality is, you know, Janet is a 30-something year old woman with 30 years experience in the music industry.

01:10:48.413 --> 01:10:55.082
[SPEAKER_02]: very much has like the agency and the intelligence to know what potentially could have and could not have it.

01:10:58.166 --> 01:11:03.874
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, again, in the aftermath, it's like things could have been done differently.

01:11:03.894 --> 01:11:09.963
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what the public thinks and what went on behind the scenes are actually kind of maybe two different things.

01:11:11.204 --> 01:11:17.593
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I mean at the end of the day, you know what they both, they both were okay.

01:11:18.569 --> 01:11:27.469
[SPEAKER_02]: They both were okay, you know, Janet apologized, Justin apologized, it's water under the bridge.

01:11:27.729 --> 01:11:36.308
[SPEAKER_02]: And why people are still harping on this 20 something years later, when they both moved on is, you know, behind beyond me.

01:11:38.093 --> 01:11:42.701
[SPEAKER_01]: Justin Timberlake did a song with Nellie Fertado and Timberlain.

01:11:43.402 --> 01:11:45.625
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's some subtle disning.

01:11:46.146 --> 01:11:48.791
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he disning prints in that song?

01:11:48.851 --> 01:11:50.053
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was disning prints.

01:11:50.073 --> 01:11:52.156
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the rumor is that he was disning prints.

01:11:53.118 --> 01:11:53.959
[SPEAKER_01]: OK.

01:11:54.023 --> 01:12:04.913
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I think Justin has made some public comments that probably he would dot, you know, at the time, maybe not not the smartest thing, but.

01:12:05.093 --> 01:12:05.334
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:12:05.594 --> 01:12:06.575
[SPEAKER_02]: Like so is everybody.

01:12:06.615 --> 01:12:07.315
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, everybody.

01:12:07.616 --> 01:12:10.218
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's I was I was thinking about this earlier today.

01:12:10.639 --> 01:12:15.043
[SPEAKER_02]: There was an interview with Prince where they were like Prince.

01:12:15.103 --> 01:12:16.444
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about Michael Jackson?

01:12:16.864 --> 01:12:18.246
[SPEAKER_02]: Prince was like, oh, he's a genius.

01:12:18.726 --> 01:12:21.769
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about Janet Jackson?

01:12:23.707 --> 01:12:38.400
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, that's a shady and a shitty comment to make, um, you know, but it's like, okay, Prince can disjan a Jackson and get a pass, Justin Timberlake can disprince and then get right over the coast for it.

01:12:38.440 --> 01:12:39.902
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's just, it's, it's, it's silly.

01:12:41.023 --> 01:12:42.624
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:12:42.644 --> 01:12:42.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:12:43.005 --> 01:12:44.646
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, no skip writing here.

01:12:44.906 --> 01:12:53.494
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's, it's high because there's not, you know, or some of her next

01:12:53.693 --> 01:12:59.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and more skipable because there's more songs, but this is the cleanest thing that she's ever done.

01:12:59.798 --> 01:13:01.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can listen through this very quickly.

01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:04.622
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know how long it is at half an hour, 40 minutes.

01:13:04.642 --> 01:13:05.503
[SPEAKER_01]: Like 40 minutes?

01:13:06.944 --> 01:13:09.747
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's, you know, yeah, it's nine songs.

01:13:10.968 --> 01:13:13.990
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, it's probably an eight or nine for me.

01:13:14.591 --> 01:13:17.974
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you said, you said it's a 10 because I said, what's your favorite song?

01:13:17.994 --> 01:13:19.175
[SPEAKER_02]: You said all of them.

01:13:19.195 --> 01:13:22.738
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's a slight exaggeration.

01:13:23.613 --> 01:13:26.061
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I've listened to, he doesn't know I'm alive in years.

01:13:26.422 --> 01:13:27.245
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:13:27.445 --> 01:13:32.301
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, every album has one song on it that's not great, but control is still like that.

01:13:32.321 --> 01:13:35.732
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the first album that the, that was the first song they recorded, by the way.

01:13:36.050 --> 01:13:40.094
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it sounds like it because it doesn't sound like any other song on a rest of the world.

01:13:40.655 --> 01:14:06.023
[SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy Jam said that was the song that was ready for them to record before they did there, their deep dive into her and what it was was it was kind of like an experiment because they had never recorded with her before so they needed to hear her vocals on stuff

01:14:06.526 --> 01:14:07.027
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man.

01:14:07.127 --> 01:14:10.912
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's, it sounds like it walked in from another record.

01:14:11.193 --> 01:14:11.894
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:14:11.934 --> 01:14:19.184
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the Quest Love podcast, Quest Love said, can I guess what was the first song you did with her?

01:14:19.244 --> 01:14:20.406
[SPEAKER_01]: And he guessed that song.

01:14:20.846 --> 01:14:25.513
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jimmy Jam said, yes, and then told the story why, but Quest Love

01:14:26.354 --> 01:14:37.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, was giggling so hard and he's like, I'm a genius, I'm a genius, I'm a genius and he said basically what you say, which is it's so different than everything else that it stands out in that way.

01:14:37.481 --> 01:14:41.410
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the one song control that sounds like the first two Janet Jackson right.

01:14:41.390 --> 01:14:55.505
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so for folks, listen to the podcast feed, we're going to cut it off here and we will start restart our top five, but for the people on the live stream and for the people watching the on-demand version, we're going to do the top five here.

01:14:55.565 --> 01:14:59.314
[SPEAKER_01]: I will also separate the top five into its own clip.