Tupac: All Eyez On Me: The Legend vs. Reality | 50 For 50

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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to everyone for checking us out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And here is the next episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mike, I think I'm the most worried about this episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And this is specifically from my perspective, not your perspective, because the person we're going to talk about

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[SPEAKER_00]: The legend of this human being and who maybe we want to believe he was is older than he existed on this earth.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He's been gone for now, what, almost 29 years, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Almost 30 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Almost 30 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 30 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: 30 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Almost 30 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Since this person passed away in this person we're talking about, it's two-poxic core, the story about who he was and the things that he was going to do in his life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, whether he was going to stay in music or go to acting or he's going to bring the East Coast and West Coast back together like this, you know, this puzzle.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think a lot of it was hopeful and wishful thinking.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so for me to have to sit here and go, hey,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Man was a young man when he passed away he had young man ideas he made some terrible mistakes some not so terrible mistakes in hindsight some young person mistakes and just the idea that

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[SPEAKER_00]: in his passing, he has kind of become bigger than almost human in a sense to some people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of why this is sitting with me in an interesting way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And after reading Jeff Perlman's book, Only God, can judge me, which is as far as I can tell, as far as the things that I've read, really the only journalism done about him,

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[SPEAKER_00]: going all the way back to his childhood, to his relish with his mom and so and so and so so I am coming off of the heels of reading that which brings he topock to a very human level to who he was to the young person he was reading about his childhood and how

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[SPEAKER_00]: My man wasn't the most popular dude because he's getting pulled out of school constantly and he doesn't really have a wardrobe and teeth are probably not in great shape.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like just things that, you know, that that that a young person is going through and then when you think of who Tupac was, ah, this dude had to be the coolest dude on every single block that he was on, but he was just so from a human perspective, I'm really interested to get into this episode with you because

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[SPEAKER_00]: We're not here to separate facts from fiction necessarily.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the legend of these artists is kind of the fun thing to talk about, but I do think that there are lots of things out there about two-buck that probably more wishful and hopeful than realistic in that sense.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the legend of Tupac is real and I think the more time passes between when he was here on earth and not here on earth, the bigger the legend grows and the more

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[SPEAKER_00]: the less that legend is based in what really actually happened and why does this mean so much to me well and what we're going to talk about the year of 1996 right now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm you know about turn 20 years old depending on what time of 96 we're talking about as as were you and I am post high

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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll you'll love this one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Working at Blockbuster video, which was a haven for people like us who were like pop culture heads and it was a really cool place to work for that perspective because you meet a lot of similar people with similar interests and

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just, you know, I was a pretty mature kid because only, you know, two and a half years later, what I have a child of my own, but I was still pretty mature person at that age, and, but to even think about the things that we're influencing me back then, to think about that today, they're kind of wild thinking of yourself as younger person.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So where were you in 1996?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What were you doing?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What were you up to?

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[SPEAKER_01]: So 1996, same as you, I would have been 19 going on 20 turn 20 about halfway through the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: At the beginning of 96, I was working at Tower Records in Manhattan, and by mid-January of 1996, I was no longer working at Tower Records, was out of work for a couple of months, and in March got a job at another record store called Nobody Beats the Wizz, and was there for the next seven years until they went out of business.

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[SPEAKER_01]: was the two months in 1996, I was living, I started the year living in an apartment in the Bronx and ended the year living in my, you know, renting my arts basement in Queens.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, a lot of change.

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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, going officially into my 20s, you know, living in two different places, working at two different places, you know, just a lot happening in that way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, as we look at this timeframe, two poxikur himself is freshly on bail.

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh... he's out of jail thanks to uh... death row and interscope they bail him out and it was like a 1.4 million dollars yeah and the the bailing of him out consisted of we will bail you out and you have to sign a three album deal with us

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure I knew this, but what I didn't realize until reading it was the first album and album that we're going to talk about right now, all lies on me, that actually count as two.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he was only on the hook for one more album, the Maca Valley album after this and then he would have been back to being a free agent and depending on some of the things that you have read about Tupac, he was either a

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[SPEAKER_00]: frustrated with Shognite or be like, you know, just going to be dependent on them because he was not doing very well even though he was making money.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was getting stretched in 25 different ways.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, again, going back to what the legend versus what the real story of Tupac is.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think one question to an immediately ask is like, was he actually making money?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because prior to 1996, like, I mean, first of all, if he was really making money, he could have built himself out and he wouldn't have needed, you know, death row and inner scope to put up $1.4 million.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he'd release three albums up to that point.

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[SPEAKER_01]: only one of them, only me against the world was like a big seller, you know, his first album ended up going gold like long after it came out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, his second album, which is the one that really kind of like broke him through the mainstream, still had only sold about a million copies.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, like, I think one lot of people misinterpret about the record business,

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[SPEAKER_01]: is that like, you sell million copies, you set for life.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much money that an artist has to pay off, you know, whether it's from videos or, you know, paying producers like the whole nine yards, you know, particularly in hip hop, which is a very producer-dependent medium.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're just, you're not making

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[SPEAKER_01]: you're not making tons of cash unless you're selling like, please hammer don't hurt him kind of money.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And which is hilarious because we're going to talk about hammer in a very specific thing when it comes to the year in music 1996.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, right, that's hilarious.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the idea of

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[SPEAKER_00]: two-pox image comes into play here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I mentioned Jeff Perlman's book only got a conjudgment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I interviewed Jeff Perlman and we're gonna play the interview, we'll put it in the feed and we'll put it on YouTube.

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[SPEAKER_00]: As part of our series this week, we'll do our 50 for 50 episode, which is this one and we'll do our top five episode and then I'll I'll I'll put it as as an episode of the cool check in so Jeff Pearlman when I when I was talking to him you know a lot of again that book is pure journalism right as pure journalism in in a hip-hop sense as you can get because of this idea that

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[SPEAKER_00]: who are you talking to and where do these stories come from and, you know, a lot of that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And we talked about that in the interview as well.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But just the idea that Tupac takes on this persona of thug life.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and whether like what it really meant like what what was it was it a stage act was it a fake tough guy persona because he knew that it would sell uh if you're if you're creating beef with uh east coast and west coast you kind of have to

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[SPEAKER_00]: play that you're some gangbanger guy because two pack was none of those things when he was growing up right and so the age old story is that after he did juice with bishop the character of bishop and the character of bishop basically becomes a mesmerized by this idea that there is power in the gun.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and so then Jeff spent a good amount of time in his book trying to figure out if that was real or bullshit, like did two-poch turn bishop into what he thought was going to be his persona selling music.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, sometimes when you hear these legends, they're just so created and they take off a life of their own.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And when you actually dial it down, you're like, okay, this is actually

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think this one is kind of right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so he saw what Tupac got out of being bishop.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And even Tupac's friend said, after the filming of Juice was over, like all of a sudden, Tupac is carrying a weapon, and he was not someone who carried a weapon before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so this idea of persona versus who you really are, I think it's just gonna run crazily through this episode because if it was Tupac is,

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[SPEAKER_00]: That dude is a lot more interested in unfairness and in, you know, groups of people who are being, you know, marginal groups who are who are not being protected and like voicing concerns about society.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then you listen to all lies on me and he'd really just give a shit about it in the background.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's a 180, two pox first three records

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[SPEAKER_01]: very conscious this first I'm particularly definitely comes from like a public enemy kind of place and then you know his second album has more like records for the ladies or records about ladies but you know if you listen to pox first three albums they're very very heavily

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[SPEAKER_01]: focused on like black liberation and, you know, storytelling and all that kind of stuff and then you don't like a couple of songs where he's like, I love chicks, you know, and then all eyes on me and then his kind of persona post that just does like a complete one 80 on what he was before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a great and I actually I couldn't read the whole thing, but there's an old.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even sure if XXL the website exists anymore, but the old magazine that we grew up with XXL which was post the source.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's an oral history on the production of all lies on me and there's a, I couldn't even read all of it because it, there was like some,

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, again, this is why I don't think that the website currently exists because it was like a downloadable script format that I couldn't even like really get through the whole thing it kept refreshing and so it was it was but I got through a part where and this kind of tells you kind of what you were saying about producers and how those people have to get paid and also

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's just like an incestuous thing about these groups because Shug Knight was like, whatever project we are putting out, I expect all of my producers who may also be artists to basically perform like a team.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is not your song, it's kind of who's which is the best for the label.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So Dazz Dillinger was talking about how

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[SPEAKER_00]: got my mind made up, which is a, which was a kind of a crazy song when you listen to it compared to what everything else that's on all lies on me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because you got method man, you got red man, and I think the dog sounds on that song or on a version of that song.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so when the story of that album is that it was supposed to be a dog pound song, and as corrupt explained it,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Dazz was just being lazy and he just didn't like work on in time or something.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just laying there.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so supposedly Dre has it and when Tupac hears it, he's like, Oh, I want that for mine.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And Dre's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I put this together blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so Tupac is talking about this in word gets back to Dazz that Dre took credit for the song.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and does is like, what does he mean?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm the one who worked on that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And according to DAS, this is really what caused the beef between Poc and Dre was Dre taking credit for stuff that he didn't do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the two Poc and Dre feud is, is

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, two bucks gone, you know, before this thing really even get started, but on Mac Avelli, he starts a dissing Dre a lot on that album, but it comes from according to dads like this, this story that he tells about got my mind made up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So like just just how this industry works in the business, like you think of like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know hip hop labels and like you think of like this like very like strategic and like based output like it's an operation and these guys are like I got this and pop here's they're like okay I want that let me go write something down and I'm gonna record it and we'll immediately put it out like it's that was that's fascinating to think about I don't know if it's still works like that today but this is a time when hip hop was selling millions and millions of

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think industry works that way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's go back to 1996.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I've just got a few nuggets here of things that were happening.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Just to kind of put everybody in the place in time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: January 18, 1996, Lisa Marie Presley files for divorce for Michael Jackson.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The two were wed on May 26, 1994.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Lisa Marie, until her passing, she was pretty pro MJ.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if she'd ever really said anything negative about MJ.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I've never really did.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, if you read a part of her book recently and even, you know, in her last days, you know, the book was partially written by Lisa Marie's daughter and was like, Mike was cool.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, her kids also had really nothing negative to say about him.

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[SPEAKER_00]: two-pock releases first ever wrapped double-eye all eyes on me.

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[SPEAKER_00]: This is in February.

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[SPEAKER_00]: One of those influential albums, quickly achieves platinum and reaches number one on the billboard at 200.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was talking about working at Blockbuster and you were working.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was in between record stores at the moment.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But before all lies on me comes out I don't know if you were doing database searches of releases or whatever, but blockbuster video for a very small amount of time I think blockbuster music comes out sometime shortly after this like they have a music side of of the business right, but we were getting albums I remember getting the Wu Tang triple album

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[SPEAKER_00]: in store like a month before street date.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, yeah, we didn't get stuff that early.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Usually, if a record came out on Tuesdays, and we would usually get new releases like the Thursday of the week before.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Thursday of Friday, sometimes even Monday.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, it would usually be, if something showed up a week before it came out,

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[SPEAKER_01]: there's too much risk involved in it, you know, somebody misreading something and putting it out before it's supposed to come out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, we usually got stuff like the Thursday or Friday of the week before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I remember a colleague of mine doing a search in our inventory system and putting a pre order copy on two pox album that was about to come out, but it was not called

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what it was called?

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[SPEAKER_00]: What was it called?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Youth in Asia.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it was in the system before it came out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's a trivia nugget.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a serious trivia nugget, but it's always stuck with me because for that short period of time where we got music in our store,

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[SPEAKER_00]: like we literally have these albums a week, two weeks, you know, before, like why didn't I just figure out how to get all of them and then burn them all?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then I could have been like before Napster, man, you could have been the original Napster.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, could have been what's that dude's name, Sean, what's his name?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sean Fanning, or you could have been like Bootlega DVD guy on Martin.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, okay, February 14th, the artist formerly known as Prince Mary's backup dancer May, Tay, that house.

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[SPEAKER_00]: My, my, my Tay Garcia who was 15 years younger and did they get married because she was pregnant?

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[SPEAKER_01]: No, they got married.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I think they got married and then she got pregnant.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But then the baby didn't survive, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: The baby's the baby only lives for a couple of days.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I mean, there's a whole thing and we'll talk about Prince at a later time where

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[SPEAKER_01]: Prince met her when she was younger and like put her in his band.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, you know, sadly kind of like groomed her.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't do anything while she was under age.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, once she was of age, just kind of like, okay, you're my girlfriend now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, they ended up getting married and ultimately getting divorced.

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[SPEAKER_00]: uh... Snoop Dogg and his bodyguard are acquitted of first degree murder the jury deadlocks on voluntary manslaughter charges in a mistrial is declared murder was the case at the gave him and i mean and that uh... jury not deadlocked in it resulted in mistrial who knows where you know where the legend of snoop or what the legend of snoop would be 30 years later

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[SPEAKER_00]: February 22nd, MCA Records buys half of interscope records, time had owned half of interscope until September 95 when it sold off its share due to political pressure over the labels gangster rap artists explicit lyrics.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Were you following the business this closely back then?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember interscope being distributed by one and then not being distributed by one or being distributed by universal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That much I remember, I remember there being, I mean obviously there was a huge sort of blowback about hip hop lyrics.

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[SPEAKER_01]: particularly gangster rap lyrics, you know, whether it was NWA or IST or ISQ, you know, eventually too pack and a lot of the death row stuff, you know, from C.G.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Lawrence Tucker and Dion Warwick and a lot of, you know, sort of older.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Black people, you know, even Bill Cosby, but, you know, I, I knew enough about the business of kind of, at least have some kind of eye on that back then, even though I'm certainly not as, I certainly was not as well-versed in businesses I am now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember Bill Cosby wanting people to pull their pants up, pull their pants up while he was pulling other people's pants down.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we could do the content that we could do on our love of the Cosby show was destroyed just absolutely destroyed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know what, I still think it's worth us doing like an episode on the Cosby here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe on TV in general, um, just cause.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, sure the show has his name on it, but there's so much we could talk about about that show that doesn't even involve him.

22:59.714 --> 23:05.462
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, particularly after Malcolm passed, like I feel like there's probably a good some good content in there.

23:07.365 --> 23:07.885
[SPEAKER_01]: February.

23:07.945 --> 23:10.829
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when are you talking about how Brian Lisa Bowenay was for an hour, like.

23:12.371 --> 23:12.471
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:12.492 --> 23:14.274
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the line from Martin.

23:14.835 --> 23:15.816
[SPEAKER_00]: Where.

23:16.488 --> 23:22.974
[SPEAKER_00]: said, uh, I think, uh, so some about coals, like, do you know any French and coals like Lisa Bonay?

23:26.478 --> 23:31.163
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, have you ever seen a daughter look as much like her mom as Zoe looks like Lisa?

23:32.224 --> 23:33.725
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.

23:35.267 --> 23:40.772
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, uh, but that's also what happens when like both your parents look alike.

23:40.792 --> 23:41.173
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, true.

23:41.633 --> 23:43.575
[SPEAKER_00]: And both your parents are just

23:43.775 --> 23:46.359
[SPEAKER_00]: Crazy, ridiculously attractive human beings.

23:46.479 --> 24:03.662
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's insane Very 28 to 38th annual Grammy Awards hosted by If I would have asked myself who hosted in this time frame I would have gave if I'd have given myself 10 picks I don't think I would have got it Ellen DeGeneres.

24:04.243 --> 24:06.386
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, damn, would you have guessed Ellen DeGeneres?

24:06.406 --> 24:09.931
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I would have been like a similar to me You've been like Rosio Donald.

24:10.091 --> 24:11.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah

24:11.433 --> 24:16.001
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, Elana Smorset wins four awards, including out in the year for jagged little pill.

24:16.181 --> 24:20.309
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, seize kiss seals kiss from a rose wins both record and song.

24:21.050 --> 24:26.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Who the in the blowfish wins best new artist presented by two pack.

24:27.464 --> 24:38.787
[SPEAKER_00]: the ceremony also notably features the reunion of the original lineup of kiss introduced by two-pock for their first appearance in full make-up and outfits since 1979.

24:39.268 --> 24:41.392
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.

24:41.953 --> 24:43.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I remember that.

24:44.845 --> 24:54.377
[SPEAKER_00]: March 16th, Mariah Carey and Boistman, 16th consecutive weeks stay at number one with one sweet day ends when Celine Dion's because you love me.

24:55.379 --> 25:02.408
[SPEAKER_00]: Replace as them, one sweet day enjoyed the longest and second of stay at number one in Billboard's Hot 100 History.

25:03.489 --> 25:04.951
[SPEAKER_01]: And that record has since been broken.

25:06.393 --> 25:10.498
[SPEAKER_01]: But now Mariah owns the record again for the longest number one single of all time.

25:10.867 --> 25:13.951
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what if the Christmas song didn't exist?

25:14.792 --> 25:15.814
[SPEAKER_00]: What would be- Then one.

25:16.535 --> 25:18.978
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Old Town Road.

25:19.539 --> 25:20.280
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.

25:20.781 --> 25:21.181
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

25:21.462 --> 25:22.563
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even ever guess that.

25:23.084 --> 25:26.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think Old Town Road has the record.

25:26.449 --> 25:26.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Credible.

25:28.732 --> 25:29.753
[SPEAKER_00]: We mentioned Emcy Hammer.

25:30.374 --> 25:30.995
[SPEAKER_00]: April 3rd.

25:31.836 --> 25:33.919
[SPEAKER_00]: Emcy Hammer files for Bankruptcy.

25:36.723 --> 25:38.325
[SPEAKER_00]: He's out of common.

25:38.423 --> 25:59.959
[SPEAKER_00]: sad times June 25 jazzy releases his debut album reasonable doubt on the too many people cared in 1996 uh but if you became a fan of jazzy soon thereafter you would have cared because that's a really good album yeah people cared in New York um

26:00.715 --> 26:06.484
[SPEAKER_01]: reasonable doubt was very much a regional hit and didn't really take off nationally.

26:07.386 --> 26:11.112
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of the follow-up in my lifetime volume one?

26:11.152 --> 26:11.412
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

26:11.653 --> 26:13.175
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some good stuff on it.

26:13.696 --> 26:18.083
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's some really really like Jay-Z and bad boy was not a good match.

26:19.008 --> 26:42.771
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... the idea of a of a lead single uh... with uh... baby face uh... on it right yeah so yeah interesting time nineteen ninety seven is just wild injured weird year uh... the spy squirrels july eight released their debut single wannabe in the uk it was a global hit hitting number one thirty one countries

26:42.751 --> 26:50.741
[SPEAKER_00]: and becoming not only the biggest selling debut single by an all-feet male group, but also the biggest selling single by an all-feet male group of all-time.

26:52.043 --> 26:53.905
[SPEAKER_00]: Were you rocking with the Spice Girls back then?

26:54.486 --> 27:00.914
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so the Spice Girls were big in the UK for maybe like 69 months before they came over to the US.

27:01.114 --> 27:02.435
[SPEAKER_01]: The US was like early 97.

27:03.577 --> 27:05.599
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I'm not gonna lie.

27:05.659 --> 27:10.986
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Spice Girls have only released three albums and I think I have owned all three.

27:10.966 --> 27:22.862
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really rock the Spice Girls all that much in 2026 and even then, I was like, this is kind of corny, but, you know, Kudos to the Spice Girls.

27:22.882 --> 27:25.406
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very good marketing by the way.

27:25.426 --> 27:26.047
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whatever.

27:26.067 --> 27:27.408
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really good marketing.

27:27.789 --> 27:28.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

27:29.131 --> 27:31.134
[SPEAKER_00]: August 1, MTV 2 is launched.

27:31.174 --> 27:34.218
[SPEAKER_00]: The first video is where it's at, by back.

27:35.680 --> 27:39.505
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in 1996, did we need a second MTV channel?

27:39.755 --> 28:08.040
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I watched MTV, well, I didn't have cable back then, but, you know, until maybe like 2008 or so, I regularly watched some form of televised videos, whether it was MTV or VH1 or BT or, you know, kind of flipping between, and, you know, 1996 MTV was super huge and was starting to get into reality programming, like real world had been around for a couple of years

28:08.020 --> 28:16.752
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they just felt like they needed a second network so that they could be true to like having a station that actually played videos.

28:16.772 --> 28:29.328
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I learned about the cable industry is that what if you had a giant channel, so let's use ESPN because ESPN is still the biggest case.

28:29.408 --> 28:30.069
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still huge.

28:30.190 --> 28:31.311
[SPEAKER_00]: Out there.

28:31.477 --> 28:33.079
[SPEAKER_00]: So you get a carriage fee.

28:33.099 --> 28:36.141
[SPEAKER_00]: So what they're negotiating with all the cable systems is a carriage fee.

28:36.161 --> 28:51.156
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, for every cable subscriber that you get depend, you know, it could be based on the tiered, it's supposed to be paying 80 bucks, it could be paying 100 bucks, whatever.

28:51.716 --> 28:51.977
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

28:52.257 --> 29:00.825
[SPEAKER_00]: ESPN gets like $10 no matter what of that number.

29:02.206 --> 29:23.742
[SPEAKER_00]: the company that owns ESPN, which is now Disney, they'll be like, yeah, like you got to pay us for ESPN, but guess what, you also got to pay us for all of these other channels that we own, and now you're talking nickels and dimes compared to the five dollars, but it's still like money that comes out of it.

29:23.802 --> 29:28.129
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know exactly how MTV 2 was built,

29:28.109 --> 29:47.640
[SPEAKER_00]: But there were like, at some, at one point, there was like five or six different MTV channels, MTV, Seoul, MTV, James, MTV, so, and so what happens is when MTV comes back to the table, they're like, yeah, if you want us, you also have to take these other channels and pay us for these other channels.

29:48.021 --> 29:50.725
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the whole key to the cable industry,

29:50.705 --> 29:55.713
[SPEAKER_00]: is launching a great channel that is getting tons of viewership.

29:56.234 --> 30:09.694
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it comes time to renew you create a second channel and then just make money off of that second channel and say you have to bring this channel into your system or else we're going to pull the original channel.

30:09.774 --> 30:17.927
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that was how the cable industry worked for all those years and now it doesn't work as well

30:17.907 --> 30:18.709
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

30:18.809 --> 30:19.010
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

30:19.050 --> 30:22.018
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, man, streaming screwed our business of free money here.

30:23.482 --> 30:23.903
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm interesting.

30:23.923 --> 30:24.665
[SPEAKER_00]: Look behind the curtain.

30:24.805 --> 30:26.570
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your lesson in cable television.

30:26.911 --> 30:27.292
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

30:27.693 --> 30:28.014
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

30:28.054 --> 30:29.217
[SPEAKER_00]: September 7th.

30:29.467 --> 30:32.973
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where it gets a preset here, and this is going to be the folks of this episode.

30:33.694 --> 30:41.487
[SPEAKER_00]: We're a two-pocked course shot several times and drive by shooting while being driven from the MGM Grand Hotel, Long Sunset Strip Vegas.

30:41.988 --> 30:47.817
[SPEAKER_00]: After seeing Mike Tyson versus Bruce Selden, he dies six days later.

30:47.837 --> 30:51.323
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember where you were when you heard that information?

30:51.995 --> 30:59.342
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember, so when he was shot, I didn't find out about it until I left for work the next morning and bought the newspaper.

31:00.704 --> 31:03.086
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously it was on the front page of all the papers.

31:04.548 --> 31:07.611
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I found out that he got shot and that would have been a Monday morning.

31:09.813 --> 31:12.996
[SPEAKER_01]: When he died, I remember I was in Times Square.

31:13.036 --> 31:19.943
[SPEAKER_01]: I was coming home from work and I had, I must have had the radio on.

31:20.935 --> 31:22.657
[SPEAKER_01]: on my walkmen or my disc man or whatever.

31:22.697 --> 31:24.178
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was probably like on hot 97.

31:25.239 --> 31:28.462
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were playing two pack records in announcing the news.

31:28.542 --> 31:31.945
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I know where I was both when I found out he got shot.

31:32.045 --> 31:35.168
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I found out that he had passed away when he got shot.

31:35.188 --> 31:37.991
[SPEAKER_00]: So I watched the Tyson and Bruce Seldon fight.

31:38.211 --> 31:38.791
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?

31:38.932 --> 31:40.773
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it wasn't very long fight.

31:40.793 --> 31:42.074
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a very quick fight.

31:42.975 --> 31:50.402
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not exact as sure if this is the same fight, but Tyson somehow comes from the stands.

31:50.382 --> 31:57.255
[SPEAKER_00]: and runs through the, like, through the entrance way as Tyson is coming back from winning.

31:57.375 --> 31:59.398
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I don't know if it was that fight or the fight.

31:59.459 --> 32:00.521
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't remember.

32:00.661 --> 32:12.683
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I've actually been reading Mike saw in a biography, and he talks about that, but it's been a couple of weeks since I last picked it up, so I don't remember exactly the specifics of that fight.

32:12.903 --> 32:13.204
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

32:13.284 --> 32:14.466
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

32:14.446 --> 32:16.148
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm listening to the radio.

32:16.208 --> 32:20.793
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm taking a shower before I go to bed or something like that on Saturday night.

32:21.794 --> 32:25.879
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had it on the sports station.

32:25.939 --> 32:31.265
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just a Mike, you know, Mike Tyson beat pro-Seldon.

32:31.285 --> 32:36.230
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was like a small piece of it and, you know, and rapper, two-poxicore, what was shot.

32:36.270 --> 32:37.011
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like,

32:38.678 --> 32:41.803
[SPEAKER_00]: Sports station and they're kind of reporting on this two-buck thing.

32:41.823 --> 33:00.315
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of big and what it did is it validated it to me because I was like, okay They're not gonna like have like a false report and put it on air like that's right not what they're gonna do So I kind of knew before I went to bed and then me and my buddy Edson

33:00.734 --> 33:21.409
[SPEAKER_00]: we went to go hoop and you know as you're getting to like day four and day five of him being in the hospital the the future is kind of bleak like they're telling you like you know his mom is like yeah you know that he's like he's his body is for whatever reason surviving and it shouldn't be surviving and so

33:22.030 --> 33:29.618
[SPEAKER_00]: We go to the park and we're shooting hoop and, you know, I'm pretty bummed out at this point because I was, you know, it was a big two-pot guy when I was at that age.

33:30.239 --> 33:41.832
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the, although local Bay Area stations are playing nothing but park and I want to say the Mach Valley stuff is kind of already leaked.

33:42.853 --> 33:45.996
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and so I just remember.

33:46.685 --> 33:53.952
[SPEAKER_00]: keeping my car on so we could keep the radio on while we were shooting hoop and we were listening to to Tupac.

33:53.992 --> 33:56.094
[SPEAKER_00]: When he eventually did pass away.

33:56.114 --> 33:57.215
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's my memory of that.

33:57.796 --> 33:57.976
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

33:57.996 --> 33:58.156
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

33:58.196 --> 34:00.018
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess that fight was on a Saturday.

34:00.058 --> 34:01.960
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would have read the news on Sunday.

34:02.440 --> 34:02.741
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

34:03.161 --> 34:03.722
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you were.

34:03.742 --> 34:04.562
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what it was.

34:04.983 --> 34:05.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

34:05.624 --> 34:14.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, did you realize that on this

34:15.170 --> 34:15.791
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not.

34:16.032 --> 34:16.873
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that either.

34:16.913 --> 34:18.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Crazy.

34:18.977 --> 34:19.879
[SPEAKER_00]: No.

34:20.861 --> 34:29.618
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, you've, you've heard that meme or that story that I think I've heard of.

34:30.121 --> 34:36.712
[SPEAKER_00]: two-pocketing a little disrespectful to cadata and Michael Jackson, yelling at him or something or they were fighting or something.

34:36.932 --> 34:39.797
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard that story come from.

34:39.817 --> 34:46.168
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea, but somebody needs to find cadata Jones and find out if that's actually true.

34:46.188 --> 34:48.552
[SPEAKER_00]: Her sister was just at the Golden Globes, man.

34:49.257 --> 34:52.282
[SPEAKER_00]: Rashida Rashida's doing great stuff.

34:52.783 --> 34:53.384
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she is.

34:53.504 --> 34:57.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Rashida's fantastic, fantastic, fantastically talented human being.

34:57.671 --> 34:59.333
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm a big fan.

35:00.695 --> 35:06.745
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, October 27th, pop-up video receives a doormir on VH1.

35:06.845 --> 35:09.329
[SPEAKER_00]: How much pop-up yield guy were you?

35:10.010 --> 35:14.117
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, I didn't have cable at the time.

35:14.637 --> 35:21.348
[SPEAKER_01]: from the year's 1996 to 2000, maybe 2000, I did not have a TV at all.

35:22.890 --> 35:29.240
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is a lot of stuff there that I missed out on, but pop a video ran retroactively on VH1 for years.

35:30.763 --> 35:31.945
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like I caught up.

35:31.965 --> 35:33.247
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

35:33.367 --> 35:38.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Slash analysis in a facts statement that he's officially leaving guns and roses.

35:39.207 --> 35:39.588
[SPEAKER_00]: 1996.

35:39.829 --> 35:43.280
[SPEAKER_01]: You think there was a gunson roses to leave at that point?

35:43.440 --> 35:45.065
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, were you a gunson roses guy?

35:45.707 --> 35:49.318
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I enjoy some guns and roses songs.

35:51.138 --> 35:51.478
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

35:51.498 --> 35:52.780
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that's about 50 50.

35:54.322 --> 35:55.864
[SPEAKER_00]: No number 12.

35:56.444 --> 35:57.546
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the last one here.

35:57.586 --> 35:58.267
[SPEAKER_00]: No I'll move on.

35:59.047 --> 36:04.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Eminem releases his debut album Infinite, which is not the one that people remember.

36:04.734 --> 36:05.035
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

36:05.135 --> 36:07.818
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the underground Eminem record.

36:08.078 --> 36:08.198
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

36:08.218 --> 36:09.200
[SPEAKER_01]: Pre-pre-dray.

36:09.660 --> 36:09.900
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

36:10.741 --> 36:11.162
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

36:11.182 --> 36:12.083
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

36:12.063 --> 36:22.697
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about some early pox stuff because like I had mentioned, you know, one of the fascinating things about Jeff Proman's book is just trying to figure out who to pop

36:23.200 --> 36:46.575
[SPEAKER_00]: the young man was to pop the teenager was and who to pop the butting artist was and you know those people are vastly different from the image that that he had and we know the story about him going to the art art school in Baltimore and Jada was one of his classmates right um

36:47.197 --> 36:58.141
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he was somebody who was, you know, kind of overcoming a lot a lot of things because his mom was sick, addicted, not always there.

36:58.342 --> 37:00.507
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was actually reading the book.

37:01.088 --> 37:03.754
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize how bad it was.

37:03.734 --> 37:11.763
[SPEAKER_00]: for his mom just on a day to day basis and him essentially having to kind of parent himself for the most part.

37:12.324 --> 37:13.986
[SPEAKER_00]: He did have a little sister too.

37:14.967 --> 37:30.585
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, he's trying to kind of figure this whole thing out where, you know, mom's is just making bad decisions because she's

37:31.477 --> 37:34.060
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a fantasy record.

37:34.460 --> 37:42.889
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like an aspirational song about who he really wanted his mom to be for him, and that was wild.

37:42.949 --> 37:49.115
[SPEAKER_00]: Because she's not great in the version of the song that he created, but obviously he had lots of love for her.

37:49.135 --> 37:49.976
[SPEAKER_01]: That's love for his mother.

37:50.016 --> 37:51.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

37:51.297 --> 38:01.247
[SPEAKER_00]: But just the idea of his childhood, the rose that grew from the concrete, all the things that we heard about, probably a little bit more bleak than people would even realize.

38:01.362 --> 38:25.767
[SPEAKER_01]: And you think about it, you know, a single parent household, low income, your parents and addict, like that's just, you know, to survive that, you know, I think, you know, immediately speaks volumes, one of the things that they had mentioned or that Jeff wrote about was,

38:26.084 --> 38:55.332
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of a way for him to deal with this was self-medication, which is why he was at least according to lots of people, seemingly either always high or always drunk, like that was just like his normal state of mind of being, was always under the influence of something and you kind of wonder about how much of that is related to a lot of the pain that he had

38:55.531 --> 38:58.214
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would imagine his PTSD was crazy.

38:58.415 --> 38:58.635
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

38:59.696 --> 38:59.796
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

38:59.816 --> 38:59.956
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

39:00.677 --> 39:09.088
[SPEAKER_00]: So the start of his career, I think most two-pock, or most music fans would know this, is digital underground.

39:09.368 --> 39:14.374
[SPEAKER_00]: And just being able to be a part of something.

39:15.095 --> 39:20.121
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, shock G had an untimely passing not too long ago.

39:20.101 --> 39:24.269
[SPEAKER_00]: And money be is still, you know, he's still out there and he's still doing interviews.

39:24.289 --> 39:35.629
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find some money be stuff out there, but that group, like two park again, the legend of two park was that he was like this piece of this group and he's really not

39:35.609 --> 40:02.089
[SPEAKER_00]: Even he's the roadie who they're letting on stage dance he's willing to do some things that other artists wouldn't be willing to do at that time like he's got it like hump like blow up dolls and stuff on stage, he's got to carry the wreck he's got to carry a lot of the stuff and so even when he does get on the digital underground song that that people remember same song.

40:02.069 --> 40:07.622
[SPEAKER_00]: he's barely a part of it, but the legend says that, oh man, this was like a three-man group in two pockets.

40:07.662 --> 40:14.037
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the people he's not, he's just, this is just kind of like his entry into the into the game, though

40:14.945 --> 40:43.804
[SPEAKER_00]: money be and I think I think shock G as well though it's kind of harder to figure out shock G he seems to be a little bit more of a private person but those guys did see him as kind of like their little brother in that sense of like oh man like little brothers growing up he kind of figured out how to how to do the music thing because I don't think they really believed he was going to like he didn't seem like a serious rapper or a serious like hip-hop artist to them

40:44.847 --> 40:46.790
[SPEAKER_00]: transient personality, right?

40:46.811 --> 40:51.779
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's dealing with a never staying in one place for for too long.

40:52.320 --> 40:55.526
[SPEAKER_00]: Ram, he's got ties to the to Marin County in the Bay Area.

40:55.566 --> 40:59.193
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he would claim Oakland in some ways.

40:59.233 --> 41:02.198
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure he actually lived in Oakland.

41:02.178 --> 41:04.420
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, if he did it was for like a short time.

41:04.901 --> 41:07.263
[SPEAKER_00]: He also grew up in in Baltimore.

41:07.283 --> 41:10.046
[SPEAKER_00]: He also lived in New York.

41:10.287 --> 41:11.708
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was born in New York.

41:11.728 --> 41:15.052
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's his guy who's just been kind of everywhere.

41:15.112 --> 41:21.118
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think people just assume this man was born and raised somewhere on the west coast in California anyway.

41:21.138 --> 41:25.223
[SPEAKER_01]: He lives in California for like less than for a quarter of his life.

41:25.503 --> 41:25.703
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

41:26.084 --> 41:26.464
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

41:26.484 --> 41:27.325
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

41:27.305 --> 41:32.176
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so we shout out to all the rappers who were wroteies and then became popular.

41:32.196 --> 41:34.843
[SPEAKER_01]: So Craig Mac Redman Two-pock.

41:34.863 --> 41:35.945
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there are a couple others.

41:36.025 --> 41:42.941
[SPEAKER_00]: See, but Redman makes some sense to me though because that dude is funny I'm sure he I'm sure he was entertaining as all hell.

41:43.162 --> 41:44.405
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure he was a wroteie.

41:45.267 --> 41:45.347
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

41:45.327 --> 41:46.349
[SPEAKER_00]: Craig, I don't know.

41:46.369 --> 42:07.742
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't know what to think about Craig Mac, but you know, I'm sure pox, a lot of pox personality probably a little closer to Red Man's personality than people would think because he did have those entertainment, those artistic skills, the idea of being an actor was just as much a thing for him as being a rapper.

42:08.443 --> 42:11.267
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think he was an actor kind of before he

42:12.209 --> 42:31.804
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, but I think there was clear interest in both things as a young person, but they didn't have rap school when he was 13 years old, whatever.

42:31.784 --> 42:36.429
[SPEAKER_00]: Brenda's, Brenda's got a baby is the not the first thing.

42:36.449 --> 42:37.931
[SPEAKER_00]: I think trap.

42:37.991 --> 42:39.052
[SPEAKER_00]: I think was the first story.

42:39.092 --> 42:48.442
[SPEAKER_00]: If only call one of those two, but Brenda's got a baby is the one that kind of sticks out to everybody because of the saw, the what the song is about.

42:48.462 --> 43:00.154
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a true story so much so that Jeff Pearlman will talk about it in our episode that that comes out later in my interview with him.

43:00.758 --> 43:04.043
[SPEAKER_00]: not only Brenda, but he found her baby.

43:04.364 --> 43:05.646
[SPEAKER_00]: The baby, that's pretty awesome.

43:05.766 --> 43:07.489
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do have to read that book.

43:07.749 --> 43:08.811
[SPEAKER_00]: He talked to both of them.

43:09.372 --> 43:10.113
[SPEAKER_00]: He got a change.

43:10.133 --> 43:14.379
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to both of them, which was, I mean, it's the intro to the book.

43:15.061 --> 43:21.811
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like, oh my god, like, you know, to kick off a book, which is pretty crazy is insane.

43:22.412 --> 43:24.876
[SPEAKER_00]: And Pock, I think they said,

43:25.936 --> 43:37.313
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Omar Eps has actually said this that Pock was reading the newspaper and started writing stuff down based off of the story that he read about.

43:37.529 --> 43:49.185
[SPEAKER_00]: the baby, and the Brenda's baby, like he read the story in the newspaper and just started writing lyrics, like Omar Epsa said that in interviews, which is nice, it's just kind of crazy.

43:50.407 --> 43:58.518
[SPEAKER_00]: So to Paco, it's now, strictly comes out, like you said, there's a little bit more crossover there because I get around, isn't it?

43:58.578 --> 44:06.068
[SPEAKER_01]: And built, yeah, because the first single I believe from that album was if my homie calls,

44:07.043 --> 44:08.485
[SPEAKER_01]: What the hell's the name of that song?

44:09.506 --> 44:11.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I got a Google.

44:11.730 --> 44:12.971
[SPEAKER_01]: You can cook this typing out.

44:13.772 --> 44:15.134
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we're keeping the typing in, man.

44:15.575 --> 44:16.676
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this is real work.

44:16.696 --> 44:17.978
[SPEAKER_00]: This is effort.

44:18.739 --> 44:20.722
[SPEAKER_00]: Effort being put in to this.

44:21.804 --> 44:24.127
[SPEAKER_01]: I get around was the second single from that album.

44:24.147 --> 44:24.427
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

44:25.329 --> 44:27.532
[SPEAKER_01]: The first single was Haller, if you hear me.

44:27.792 --> 44:28.052
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

44:28.813 --> 44:31.397
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Haller if you hear me by the way.

44:31.462 --> 44:42.957
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that is a version of the type of song that we were talking about before that he kind of built his career off of before the 180 switch.

44:43.677 --> 44:44.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

44:44.158 --> 44:54.912
[SPEAKER_00]: So, strictly comes out and keep your head up also, kind of keeps him in the conversation.

44:54.992 --> 44:56.133
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

44:56.153 --> 44:59.157
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it built up again, like, you know,

45:01.398 --> 45:09.650
[SPEAKER_01]: How if he was a first single and that kind of was like a low buzz, at least here in New York, then I got around was really the song that broke to pop in New York.

45:10.491 --> 45:26.815
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just like a big radio hit kind of a digital underground song right it's a digital underground song summertime vibe and it was less serious than you know this stuff that he had put out up until that point and then keep your head up came out and that like blew everything wide open.

45:27.014 --> 45:29.737
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about keep your head up here now?

45:29.797 --> 45:35.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Cache, it's what, almost the, what, 32 years.

45:35.523 --> 45:35.984
[SPEAKER_01]: So three years?

45:36.044 --> 45:36.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Something like that?

45:36.824 --> 45:37.906
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's still a great song.

45:38.867 --> 45:51.280
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem that I had with that song is it's not a real problem because he writes it before some of the things happen with the, the, the rape case and everything.

45:51.320 --> 45:56.025
[SPEAKER_00]: But like there's a version of two-pock,

45:56.107 --> 46:04.639
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, after the bitches in the hose, and there's another version of Tupac, which is like pay respect to your mom's because of without moms, there's no us.

46:05.280 --> 46:25.489
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that dichotomy of both guys existing in a jekyll and hideway always fascinated me, and I always wanted him to lean closer to the keep you head up version of who he would, but that's his not a may not have been what he thought was going to sell and he may not have been what he thought about life at that time.

46:25.469 --> 46:35.704
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think there's, like, there's a few things that play here, you know, one is that, like, massage and it's too pop didn't really show up until all eyes on me.

46:36.084 --> 46:36.324
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

46:36.645 --> 46:42.113
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I think that was just part of him being like, I got to play this gangster role now.

46:42.133 --> 46:54.210
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry to this label, whether some of it was like coerced, you know, I think up until that point, even I get around, which is kind of like,

46:54.747 --> 47:02.657
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, he's pinching butts in the video and pulling it off, but it's not like a super misogynist record.

47:04.580 --> 47:08.986
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that, you know, I get around and keep you head up, can't exist from the same person.

47:09.446 --> 47:22.864
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you can be, you can be down for the cause, you can be conscious as hell and still like to fuck, you know, you can, you know, and again, like you're a young guy, he's 22, 23 when this, when this record comes out, like I, you know, you don't really understand

47:24.143 --> 47:31.113
[SPEAKER_01]: where that may be seen as hypocritical in some ways at that age, I don't think.

47:31.133 --> 47:35.700
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do wonder though, post.

47:37.142 --> 47:44.773
[SPEAKER_00]: He proclaimed his freedom while in jail, like most people do when they are very similar to Mike Tyson.

47:46.035 --> 47:46.155
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

47:46.175 --> 47:51.703
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jeff Proman doesn't really litigate that in his book.

47:53.253 --> 47:56.418
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a he said, she said, the right case.

47:56.538 --> 48:05.533
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, obviously nobody other than the people that were there, but there was a lot of people there, which is part of the problem.

48:05.894 --> 48:06.194
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

48:06.214 --> 48:14.067
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of the homies were there and so that kind of buddies the water about what the real story is.

48:14.948 --> 48:15.068
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

48:16.671 --> 48:19.716
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess post, I do wonder,

48:19.848 --> 48:23.054
[SPEAKER_00]: He's mad at the system, 100% coming out of jail.

48:24.537 --> 48:30.207
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he mad at women as the plurality of that word?

48:30.328 --> 48:39.024
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he angry at women because of what he believes he was not guilty of and being caught up?

48:39.765 --> 48:40.747
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's possible.

48:42.290 --> 48:43.392
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you get,

48:44.435 --> 48:48.319
[SPEAKER_01]: sent up the river for a crime that you feel like you didn't commit.

48:48.960 --> 48:52.804
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean the jury is still on whether he did actually commit a crime.

48:54.066 --> 48:59.251
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be angry at, you're going to be angry at whatever system caused you to lose your freedom.

49:00.833 --> 49:05.018
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean I think even people who are 100% guilty is hell, are still mad at the system.

49:05.038 --> 49:05.878
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah for sure.

49:05.919 --> 49:08.181
[SPEAKER_00]: There's an interview

49:08.718 --> 49:14.787
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I'm trying to, no, we're going back like, you know, it's like 1995 here, 1945.

49:15.307 --> 49:18.192
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a vibe magazine actually had power.

49:18.492 --> 49:26.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic coverage of the pocket this time, Kevin Powell from originally, one of the original, original real world cast members.

49:26.804 --> 49:27.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Shut up, Kevin Powell.

49:27.906 --> 49:28.406
[SPEAKER_00]: That did.

49:28.446 --> 49:29.388
[SPEAKER_00]: You still doing this thing.

49:30.229 --> 49:33.814
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you ever see any of the real world homecoming?

49:33.997 --> 49:37.141
[SPEAKER_00]: They put all of those folks back in the same house.

49:37.982 --> 49:39.964
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this was probably like, I don't know, five years ago.

49:41.086 --> 49:41.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

49:41.226 --> 49:48.234
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he did not let some of that stuff go from back then.

49:48.294 --> 49:49.776
[SPEAKER_00]: And I understand why.

49:49.796 --> 49:56.224
[SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of, I almost,

49:56.828 --> 50:03.556
[SPEAKER_00]: It almost felt like he was portrayed a little bit as like the angry guy, but I also like sympathize with him so much.

50:04.017 --> 50:10.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because, you know, he's a journalist and he was working hard to prove that, you know, he could do this thing.

50:11.285 --> 50:15.611
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was a fascinating look back, but, you know, everyone's just like 30 years old.

50:15.631 --> 50:20.557
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so it's not the same vibe of like the young kids who are kind of growing into adulthood.

50:21.017 --> 50:24.962
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, so in that interview or in those series of interviews,

50:25.229 --> 50:30.405
[SPEAKER_00]: What two-pack had always claimed was a lady came to the house.

50:31.769 --> 50:35.340
[SPEAKER_00]: He was kind of messed up, so he went to take a nap.

50:35.725 --> 50:38.790
[SPEAKER_00]: And then everything happened, well, he wasn't there.

50:38.990 --> 50:42.276
[SPEAKER_00]: That was, but he never said who was there.

50:42.817 --> 50:44.339
[SPEAKER_00]: He never said it was the home he did this home.

50:44.639 --> 50:55.657
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's what he had always claimed was that even in this idea of this woman being abused that he was not there to witness it or to even be a part of it.

50:56.038 --> 51:02.188
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think her side was that he was there

51:03.147 --> 51:06.692
[SPEAKER_00]: he kind of tapped in the homies without her consent.

51:07.073 --> 51:08.635
[SPEAKER_00]: That was what she had always stated.

51:09.857 --> 51:10.659
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

51:10.699 --> 51:19.612
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's so hard to even think about it all these years later, I've not heard much from her after it happened.

51:19.632 --> 51:25.982
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope she is doing well, but we know the two poxide of those things.

51:25.962 --> 51:35.423
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a big part, and then also even before that, or actually I don't know, when is the quad studio shooting?

51:36.225 --> 51:40.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that he got convicted like two days after he got shot?

51:40.846 --> 51:48.557
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so he, this, this is kind of what kicks off the, the biggie versus two-pock thing.

51:49.519 --> 51:52.403
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's in New York at Quad Studios.

51:53.425 --> 51:54.506
[SPEAKER_00]: He's gonna record.

51:55.307 --> 52:04.321
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he sees like Lil C's who he's homies or he thinks is he thinks Lil C's like a cool kid he knows that he's one of Biggie's guys.

52:04.421 --> 52:07.866
[SPEAKER_00]: Two-pock and Biggie were friendly at this point.

52:07.846 --> 52:10.390
[SPEAKER_01]: They were friends who, I mean, not even like friendly.

52:10.410 --> 52:23.251
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like homeboys and, you know, Pac would say that, you know, he always try to look out for Biggie and he talked about, hey, you know, every for every song you do for the fellas do a song for the ladies to.

52:24.412 --> 52:26.055
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so they had a relationship.

52:26.756 --> 52:35.490
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I would love and it's so unfortunate because we never got to see either of these guys.

52:35.858 --> 53:01.123
[SPEAKER_00]: grow to be old dudes because the stories, you know, about what they were dealing with and being these two young guys who are kind of on top of the world in, in, in, in a way that I'm sure neither guy really wanted or predicted and then they become the center of this controversy and if you're

53:01.390 --> 53:07.654
[SPEAKER_00]: You're almost like, why am I even involved in this thing like, like, so he becomes a target.

53:07.837 --> 53:21.752
[SPEAKER_00]: because of this fictional, I can't even call it a fictional war because there was real beef, but him versus Tupac was not a real beef, and it should like that whole thing is fascinating.

53:22.152 --> 53:30.701
[SPEAKER_00]: Just the fact that we don't have those men alive to tell the story of what was going down or why things happened the way that they did.

53:30.721 --> 53:36.207
[SPEAKER_00]: It sucks because there's just so much stuff happening there

53:36.187 --> 53:42.358
[SPEAKER_01]: but also gave people an excuse to like create their own version of the story, you know, whether they were there or not.

53:43.981 --> 53:49.891
[SPEAKER_01]: The people that are remaining are going to make the story up to make them look as good as possible.

53:50.091 --> 53:56.743
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you're never really going to know the real deal of what happened, what led to it, you know,

53:56.723 --> 54:10.607
[SPEAKER_01]: all of that stuff, and it's, you know, at the end of the day, it's sad because we lost two talented young men in the prime of their lives, ultimately as, yeah, and that was kind of the catalyst of it.

54:10.627 --> 54:12.550
[SPEAKER_00]: So then he's at the studio.

54:12.610 --> 54:15.375
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a gun on him.

54:15.395 --> 54:19.322
[SPEAKER_00]: He is very, what would you say?

54:20.467 --> 54:21.891
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not of right mind.

54:21.911 --> 54:23.394
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's very paranoid.

54:23.415 --> 54:24.938
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was paranoid, yeah.

54:25.259 --> 54:26.081
[SPEAKER_01]: He was paranoid.

54:26.222 --> 54:28.046
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like about to go in for sentencing.

54:28.086 --> 54:36.568
[SPEAKER_01]: He's trying to basically like stack up as many features as he possibly can to like,

54:36.548 --> 54:38.972
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, A makes some money because he was broke.

54:39.893 --> 54:43.178
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then just kind of like keep his name out in the streets.

54:43.759 --> 54:48.106
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so he went, he was supposed to be doing this verse for like a little shawn or something like that.

54:48.526 --> 54:51.030
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what led him to quad studios.

54:51.311 --> 54:55.277
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, this is a verse that is going to be kind of like a throwaway thing.

54:55.297 --> 54:58.662
[SPEAKER_00]: He's only doing it to get some quick money.

54:59.223 --> 54:59.403
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

54:59.884 --> 55:03.349
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, he strapped because I would imagine,

55:04.460 --> 55:14.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, like you're super paranoid, you're dealing with this trial, you're about to get sentenced like, you know, you're walking into a situation.

55:14.372 --> 55:15.754
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't know everybody that's there.

55:15.794 --> 55:18.998
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you want to protect you, so yeah, for sure.

55:19.799 --> 55:33.015
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is, I guess some dudes to math on or like, dude, you know, you got a friend

55:33.856 --> 55:50.877
[SPEAKER_00]: fires, but I think we're pretty understanding that he actually fired accidentally, because he shoots himself with this gun in his waistband, which then sets off the other side and he does get shot.

55:51.498 --> 55:58.546
[SPEAKER_00]: And as presumably left for dead until they find him and then they rush him to the hospital.

55:59.147 --> 55:59.948
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

55:59.928 --> 56:06.260
[SPEAKER_00]: So did we ever figure out who the quad the the Quad City of shooters were?

56:06.560 --> 56:08.965
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that is still unsolved.

56:08.985 --> 56:09.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's wild.

56:10.127 --> 56:20.687
[SPEAKER_00]: So in his paranoia and and look if if you're shot a bunch of times by some mass dudes and like you're you're doubling and tripling your paranoia.

56:21.005 --> 56:26.353
[SPEAKER_00]: he puts the blame on Biggie and Puffy because this is their city.

56:26.393 --> 56:28.496
[SPEAKER_00]: They should know what's going down.

56:28.556 --> 56:30.819
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like a sneak attack to him.

56:30.859 --> 56:39.992
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with this theory is that what is the reason, like what would Biggie and Pock and what would Biggie and Puffy

56:40.917 --> 56:43.621
[SPEAKER_00]: need to do that need to set him up for.

56:44.142 --> 56:47.506
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's always the part of his his story that just never made sense.

56:47.546 --> 56:54.656
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, like, he just paranoid all to hell, looking behind him at every stop.

56:55.537 --> 57:01.906
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so he is in the hospital in really bad shape.

57:02.647 --> 57:10.198
[SPEAKER_00]: And because he's got the trial that that you were talking about,

57:10.364 --> 57:24.677
[SPEAKER_00]: And he finds a spot to basically be secluded, and I mean, he's staying with Jasmine guy, and I think they had like hired some.

57:25.214 --> 57:27.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Bodyguard, it's like, yeah, probably like the food islam.

57:28.563 --> 57:33.055
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, to take care of them, to security.

57:33.536 --> 57:41.637
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I don't remember the time frame in which she is convicted, and until he goes to jail.

57:42.022 --> 57:49.115
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he, the shooting I believe was in November of 94, he got convicted like days later.

57:49.155 --> 57:53.323
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he went to jail in like January of 95.

57:53.804 --> 57:56.349
[SPEAKER_00]: So it all happened like for very, yeah, very quickly.

57:57.110 --> 58:04.063
[SPEAKER_00]: So while he's in jail, if you go back and read those vibe magazine pieces, it sounds like he's

58:04.415 --> 58:20.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Like because he's not able to smoke weed all day long, he's a pretty sound minded like he's creating some theories about why these things have happened he's and like I said you know the the biggie and puffy setting him up thing never they made sense, but he's also.

58:21.037 --> 58:24.862
[SPEAKER_00]: like trying to figure out who he is.

58:24.962 --> 58:26.444
[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to figure out the system.

58:26.464 --> 58:28.427
[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to figure out what his career is going to be like.

58:29.208 --> 58:37.018
[SPEAKER_00]: And as, as you're reading these things, you're like, okay, like when he gets out of this thing, he's, it sounds like he's trying to change his life.

58:38.680 --> 58:38.801
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

58:38.821 --> 58:42.445
[SPEAKER_00]: But then Schoegnite and team interscope put the bail up.

58:43.627 --> 58:44.428
[SPEAKER_00]: And

58:44.746 --> 58:54.047
[SPEAKER_00]: because of him getting out and because of what the idea was, okay, you now owe us three albums, and Shug Nights entire label.

58:54.145 --> 58:58.209
[SPEAKER_00]: is built off of the identity of gangster rap.

58:59.110 --> 59:01.653
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now Pock falls into this image.

59:02.454 --> 59:06.778
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of those things that he was saying in jail, he kind of just throws them out the window.

59:07.199 --> 59:08.900
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, okay, clean slate.

59:09.521 --> 59:22.735
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to make money, I'm running out of time, and we're just gonna go through this two-week period of recording as many songs as humanly possible.

59:22.715 --> 59:25.859
[SPEAKER_00]: because he's got to put this record out like as fast as he can.

59:26.399 --> 59:26.619
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

59:27.620 --> 59:48.604
[SPEAKER_00]: And reading his process, which was to have like three different studios, like all set up, and he's going to go to one wrap his verse, jump to the next studio, wrap his verse, jump to the next studio, wrap his verse,

59:50.018 --> 59:51.079
[SPEAKER_00]: we're not working fast enough.

59:51.100 --> 59:52.021
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not working hard enough.

59:52.081 --> 59:53.843
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have the time.

59:53.903 --> 59:55.746
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we need to do this stuff now.

59:55.806 --> 59:57.148
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to be more proficient.

59:57.789 --> 59:58.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

59:58.209 --> 01:00:01.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's a quality versus quantity aspect.

01:00:01.514 --> 01:00:03.737
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that shows on all lies on me.

01:00:04.338 --> 01:00:05.019
[SPEAKER_00]: Very much so.

01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:18.658
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there is a 10 to 12 track album that would have zero skips, but that's

01:00:18.638 --> 01:00:24.905
[SPEAKER_00]: especially on side B. I almost never go back to the second to the second to the second.

01:00:24.925 --> 01:00:31.932
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my my all eyes on me experience is like I mentioned towards the top.

01:00:31.972 --> 01:00:40.261
[SPEAKER_01]: I was out of work, limited funds, and all eyes on me and the score by Fuji's came out on the same day.

01:00:42.384 --> 01:00:43.785
[SPEAKER_01]: And

01:00:44.727 --> 01:00:49.995
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew I wanted, I wanted to buy both of those albums, but I didn't have enough money to buy both of those albums.

01:00:51.217 --> 01:00:54.663
[SPEAKER_01]: So the album that I initially went with was all eyes on me.

01:00:54.763 --> 01:00:58.449
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was the only album I bought in the entire two months that I was unemployed.

01:01:00.031 --> 01:01:06.642
[SPEAKER_01]: So back in those days, I listened to music a lot more actively and we listened to an album from top to bottom multiple times.

01:01:07.463 --> 01:01:07.984
[SPEAKER_01]: And,

01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:12.425
[SPEAKER_01]: Very quickly, I was like, man, this album is bloated.

01:01:12.485 --> 01:01:23.460
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like, you know, there is a good album's worth of music in these two albums.

01:01:23.761 --> 01:01:29.609
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are, I mean, there are probably half a dozen songs on that album that I literally have not listened to since 1996.

01:01:30.290 --> 01:01:31.852
[SPEAKER_00]: I went through the entire thing.

01:01:32.353 --> 01:01:32.814
[SPEAKER_00]: Good for you.

01:01:33.274 --> 01:01:34.596
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like,

01:01:35.605 --> 01:01:37.047
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, this song is on the album.

01:01:37.067 --> 01:01:38.429
[SPEAKER_00]: Hang on, I don't remember it at all.

01:01:38.690 --> 01:01:43.197
[SPEAKER_00]: And because I just would a lot of times I would never get to this second album.

01:01:43.217 --> 01:01:43.798
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:46.863
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some songs that from the second album that I still remember.

01:01:46.883 --> 01:01:55.116
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like there's a lot of, I remember, when Pock passed, you remember,

01:01:56.294 --> 01:02:03.521
[SPEAKER_00]: MTV, uh, there was an Asian VJ, young man with a really, really deep voice.

01:02:04.422 --> 01:02:05.763
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot what this dude's name was.

01:02:05.783 --> 01:02:08.406
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say it was like, Theo or something.

01:02:08.466 --> 01:02:10.348
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, yes, he has D. J. Theo.

01:02:10.728 --> 01:02:13.751
[SPEAKER_00]: He was, um, he was like a quiet storm DJ.

01:02:14.492 --> 01:02:16.254
[SPEAKER_00]: So it just really deep voice.

01:02:16.354 --> 01:02:18.576
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like Barry Whiteman happened.

01:02:18.656 --> 01:02:26.284
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would talk about Pock and, and he would, like he would go, like kind of within

01:02:26.264 --> 01:02:32.632
[SPEAKER_00]: It almost liked the room would darken as he started talking and so everyone was doing their lingerie would come out.

01:02:32.672 --> 01:02:39.861
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone was doing their memories of, you know, of their two box stories or their biggest stories or whatever at this time.

01:02:40.522 --> 01:02:49.032
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember, I don't remember if it was actually Theo doing the interview, but there was somebody interviewing someone in rap music,

01:02:49.012 --> 01:02:53.276
[SPEAKER_00]: And the guy said, you know what you're what your favorite album right now.

01:02:53.296 --> 01:02:54.678
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I was like all lies on me.

01:02:55.118 --> 01:02:59.323
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, and not the first album, but the second album.

01:02:59.343 --> 01:03:00.804
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, okay, I'm turning this off.

01:03:00.824 --> 01:03:02.326
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's no way in hell.

01:03:03.327 --> 01:03:07.852
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody likes that second album more than the first album.

01:03:08.492 --> 01:03:08.913
[SPEAKER_00]: No way.

01:03:09.093 --> 01:03:10.895
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's like some made up stuff.

01:03:10.915 --> 01:03:13.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's got their own individual taste.

01:03:14.058 --> 01:03:17.922
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it, but I mean, it's not impossible.

01:03:18.273 --> 01:03:46.423
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was so mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I'm still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad, I still mad

01:03:47.585 --> 01:03:55.314
[SPEAKER_01]: moment, I think where Shug Knight went from just like label owner to like personality was the source of words in 95.

01:03:55.855 --> 01:04:02.924
[SPEAKER_01]: When he was like, if you don't, when he dis-puff him, it was basically like if you don't want your executive producer dancing your videos being like, I'll come to death row.

01:04:03.384 --> 01:04:17.001
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when I think he, it became public knowledge that he was kind of this,

01:04:17.690 --> 01:04:41.115
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, you know, and then right after that, there was this stuff where like he basically poached Mary Jane, Joe to see for a while, it was just, yeah, and you were like, okay, this is maybe not a great guy, um, but yeah, for the initial part of it like the chronic and doggy style, it was, you know,

01:04:42.091 --> 01:04:47.318
[SPEAKER_00]: and around this time, Drey's trying to figure out his exit strategy.

01:04:48.079 --> 01:05:01.956
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if those conversations between Drey and Tupakness has certainly happened, but you had just thinking of the timing, like Drey had to have figured out that he was on his way out by the time Tupak gets there.

01:05:01.936 --> 01:05:04.238
[SPEAKER_01]: it must, I mean, it happened so quickly.

01:05:04.258 --> 01:05:07.882
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, California love comes out in like January.

01:05:08.203 --> 01:05:09.944
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the album comes out in February.

01:05:09.984 --> 01:05:12.667
[SPEAKER_01]: Dre was gone by like the summer.

01:05:12.988 --> 01:05:13.228
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:05:14.109 --> 01:05:16.271
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and two pack was dead by September.

01:05:16.491 --> 01:05:16.732
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:05:16.752 --> 01:05:19.394
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like all of this happens like inside of a year.

01:05:20.656 --> 01:05:27.623
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dre, I know that some of Dre's

01:05:28.835 --> 01:05:44.358
[SPEAKER_00]: the delay in him actually leaving was because shook wasn't going to let him go like they drape is going to give up everything to get out of his contract to start after math like I remember reading now we're going back to the hip-hop magazines again.

01:05:44.458 --> 01:05:46.842
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to remember I don't I don't think it was the source.

01:05:46.882 --> 01:05:48.143
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it was XXL.

01:05:48.704 --> 01:05:54.673
[SPEAKER_00]: It was one of the other hip-hop magazines but they had written a story about how hard it was for drape to get out of

01:05:54.653 --> 01:06:19.058
[SPEAKER_00]: death row right and like just being threatened and shook was going to beat them up and you know basically shook was like yeah you can get out but you're basically giving me everything everything yeah and then Dre was just like all right if that's what I do that's what I got to do so yeah that whole time again whole time period just wild like to say and weird that happened as such a short window the fact that

01:06:19.763 --> 01:06:24.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Pock is on the Grammys in February and is dead in September.

01:06:25.153 --> 01:06:26.816
[SPEAKER_00]: September, you nuts.

01:06:27.236 --> 01:06:28.619
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:30.823
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all I's on me is being recorded.

01:06:30.923 --> 01:06:33.087
[SPEAKER_00]: California Love Like You mentioned is the first single.

01:06:34.129 --> 01:06:41.181
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard this song the first time I was driving down capital expressway.

01:06:41.802 --> 01:06:50.354
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say I was listening to, it's not KML, which is the probably the more famous hip-hop historical Bay Area radio station.

01:06:50.534 --> 01:06:56.983
[SPEAKER_00]: A two-poch mentions KML on, to live in DINLA.

01:06:57.023 --> 01:06:59.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he mentions the station.

01:07:00.087 --> 01:07:05.194
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say it was wild 107.

01:07:05.596 --> 01:07:14.734
[SPEAKER_00]: a DJ comes on and he's like, he basically says I have a bootleg copy of the new two pox song.

01:07:16.457 --> 01:07:18.441
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the roughest.

01:07:19.433 --> 01:07:24.061
[SPEAKER_00]: least produced, least version of a song that you ever heard.

01:07:24.642 --> 01:07:27.547
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost to the point of I was like, what the hell is this?

01:07:27.587 --> 01:07:29.571
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't even really understand what this song is.

01:07:30.372 --> 01:07:35.982
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's how hot the streets were for, whatever was going to be two pox first song.

01:07:36.403 --> 01:07:36.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

01:07:36.804 --> 01:07:43.095
[SPEAKER_00]: And this song is actually a song that Dre had wanted for himself, but again, in this idea of

01:07:43.278 --> 01:07:47.985
[SPEAKER_00]: We got to put all of our effort into the one album that we're needing to come out.

01:07:49.007 --> 01:07:50.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Dre has to give up California love.

01:07:51.570 --> 01:07:56.678
[SPEAKER_00]: And the California love song that we know, the radio version.

01:07:58.220 --> 01:07:59.783
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not even on the album.

01:08:00.043 --> 01:08:02.527
[SPEAKER_00]: The album version is a remix.

01:08:03.088 --> 01:08:07.494
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's funny is the first version that I heard of California love was the remix.

01:08:07.835 --> 01:08:11.260
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:08:11.476 --> 01:08:16.387
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, listening to Hot 97, and they had, you know, like the Battle of the Beats or whatever.

01:08:17.289 --> 01:08:21.338
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and it must have been, I think I was still working.

01:08:22.100 --> 01:08:26.329
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so it must have been like either late December, 95 early January, 96.

01:08:26.933 --> 01:08:30.659
[SPEAKER_01]: and they played the remix of the song, which they didn't say was a remix at the time.

01:08:31.661 --> 01:08:34.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, this is kind of dope.

01:08:34.285 --> 01:08:38.292
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, I still prefer the remix to the original version to this day.

01:08:40.115 --> 01:08:42.258
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so that's the first version I've heard.

01:08:42.278 --> 01:08:45.584
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I heard the original version until I saw the video.

01:08:46.966 --> 01:08:53.076
[SPEAKER_00]: And that video, I think is twopox

01:08:53.765 --> 01:09:02.136
[SPEAKER_00]: like coming out party as something that could be bigger than what people previously thought he was.

01:09:02.156 --> 01:09:13.691
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Drake, I don't know if Drake necessarily had that same charisma, but, you know, the chronic was a giant success.

01:09:14.272 --> 01:09:23.164
[SPEAKER_00]: But, Tupac as a, in that video, the Mad Max style video, you're seeing this dude on screen

01:09:23.785 --> 01:09:28.429
[SPEAKER_00]: He's about to jump off like he's going to be bigger than we even realize that he could be.

01:09:29.050 --> 01:09:29.370
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:09:29.390 --> 01:09:32.134
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you know, less than a year later, he's gone.

01:09:32.254 --> 01:09:33.736
[SPEAKER_00]: So which is wild.

01:09:34.277 --> 01:09:40.025
[SPEAKER_00]: So California love comes out as the single, the album goes bonkers.

01:09:40.986 --> 01:09:46.393
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it is currently at just under what, what do you think?

01:09:46.433 --> 01:09:55.125
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just under six million, but because it's a double album, it's

01:09:55.274 --> 01:10:00.013
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is the, so yeah, probably right under six million sold or so.

01:10:02.182 --> 01:10:03.748
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean.

01:10:05.045 --> 01:10:11.533
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, albums double albums for those who don't know are counted twice by our AA.

01:10:13.275 --> 01:10:33.381
[SPEAKER_01]: So if an album, if a double album is certified 12 million, that means it sold 6 million and I'm going to go behind the curtain for a minute and I can tell you exactly according to sound scan how many copies all eyes on me has sold.

01:10:34.019 --> 01:10:37.407
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I can figure out what I'm doing here.

01:10:37.447 --> 01:10:46.047
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, it has actually sold nearly 10 million copies.

01:10:46.207 --> 01:10:48.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, no.

01:10:52.852 --> 01:11:00.760
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you throw streaming into the mix, it is at 9.8 million.

01:11:00.921 --> 01:11:01.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.

01:11:01.561 --> 01:11:05.926
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so the streaming is added, yeah, 3 million copies or something.

01:11:05.946 --> 01:11:14.815
[SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of pure sales, like CD and album sales, it has sold about 4.5 million copies.

01:11:16.317 --> 01:11:22.183
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you think about the songs on that album,

01:11:22.552 --> 01:11:25.379
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, you're not in on the West Coast.

01:11:25.620 --> 01:11:32.537
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, there's a different fandom out here for that style of music, right?

01:11:32.557 --> 01:11:36.848
[SPEAKER_00]: And what you being a New Yorker was used to when it came to hip hop.

01:11:37.182 --> 01:11:37.863
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, though.

01:11:37.923 --> 01:11:39.445
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean that you can't fuck with it.

01:11:39.485 --> 01:11:43.890
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you liked the chronic and doggy style for love.

01:11:43.970 --> 01:11:46.312
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I loved the chronic and doggy style.

01:11:47.013 --> 01:11:56.624
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the singles or just, you know, the songs as you remember them, what was your favorite song on that album?

01:11:56.644 --> 01:12:02.110
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would say then and now California love is my favorite song in album.

01:12:02.545 --> 01:12:04.086
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I liked how do you want it?

01:12:04.207 --> 01:12:05.388
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked I ain't mad at you.

01:12:06.048 --> 01:12:07.350
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked what's your phone number.

01:12:09.952 --> 01:12:11.834
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I liked God, my mind made up.

01:12:12.074 --> 01:12:17.279
[SPEAKER_01]: So all about you pretty much everything on the first album I thought was pretty okay.

01:12:17.339 --> 01:12:18.921
[SPEAKER_01]: Life goes on, I thought was a good song.

01:12:19.681 --> 01:12:26.708
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like, as I said earlier, like going through the tracks on that second album, I'm like, I barely remember any of these.

01:12:26.728 --> 01:12:28.570
[SPEAKER_01]: Shorty wanna be a thug as a good song.

01:12:28.718 --> 01:12:31.242
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're like, okay, I'll take your work.

01:12:31.262 --> 01:12:32.484
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take your word for it.

01:12:32.665 --> 01:12:36.210
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, have an eight to hard to find is is a good song.

01:12:36.511 --> 01:12:41.680
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit more R&B than then then it is a hip up song.

01:12:41.700 --> 01:12:46.087
[SPEAKER_00]: I think more like all about you than than the other songs and shout out to Quincy Jones.

01:12:46.147 --> 01:12:48.811
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, his son QD3 produced have an eight hard to find.

01:12:49.292 --> 01:12:49.953
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there you go.

01:12:50.815 --> 01:12:51.316
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

01:12:51.396 --> 01:12:54.000
[SPEAKER_00]: So I will say,

01:12:54.875 --> 01:13:03.351
[SPEAKER_00]: The songs that really connected, now we haven't even talked about, hit them up, hit them up is not on all lies on me.

01:13:03.692 --> 01:13:09.463
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not, it was a beside of the, how do you want it single?

01:13:10.004 --> 01:13:14.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I remember hearing this song,

01:13:15.817 --> 01:13:22.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Did it come out after he had already passed away or was it out there before he was out there before he passed away?

01:13:22.805 --> 01:13:24.206
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you want it single came out?

01:13:24.286 --> 01:13:24.947
[SPEAKER_01]: That's summer.

01:13:25.167 --> 01:13:28.751
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and it was on the max single.

01:13:28.771 --> 01:13:29.572
[SPEAKER_01]: It was how do you want it?

01:13:29.632 --> 01:13:31.014
[SPEAKER_01]: California love and hit them up.

01:13:31.194 --> 01:13:44.068
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so because my memory is my friend buying the single because I didn't have the single yet and her saying have you heard this song and she put it on and I was like

01:13:44.048 --> 01:13:49.494
[SPEAKER_00]: what in the blue hell is going on here, like this is, this is crazy.

01:13:49.534 --> 01:13:54.879
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not even, you know, we have had hip-hop battles historically in the past.

01:13:54.899 --> 01:14:05.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Like on the, you know, on the, on the cover of one of Cumodi's albums, isn't like LL's hat is like ran over by the art.

01:14:06.991 --> 01:14:11.676
[SPEAKER_00]: There's been tons of frustration between artists in the past, but

01:14:12.415 --> 01:14:18.904
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember hearing the venom that came out of Pox mouth on that album.

01:14:18.984 --> 01:14:27.076
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I wonder what like that had they ever said, what specifically pissed him off on that day to record that album.

01:14:27.777 --> 01:14:28.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Who the hell knows?

01:14:28.718 --> 01:14:29.940
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably something Puffy did.

01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.484
[SPEAKER_00]: Puffy price said something.

01:14:32.524 --> 01:14:33.565
[SPEAKER_00]: He would be the one.

01:14:33.765 --> 01:14:35.308
[SPEAKER_00]: He is getting under people skin.

01:14:35.548 --> 01:14:37.731
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, like I can't imagine.

01:14:38.352 --> 01:14:43.759
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever happened even being like that bad compared to what he did on that song.

01:14:44.019 --> 01:14:47.564
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean he hit him up And I know plenty of people like that song.

01:14:47.724 --> 01:15:07.870
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't listen to that song anymore just because obviously If you have any kind of conscience knowing what happened after he put that song out is just like you know Obviously not exclusively due to that song, but as a reflection of that song at least two people lost their lives

01:15:08.103 --> 01:15:21.983
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like, you know, I'm a big believer in, you know, you are what you consume and like that level of negativity and anger and all that stuff may just it doesn't sit well with me at all.

01:15:22.063 --> 01:15:24.046
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like this song, then I don't like it now.

01:15:25.669 --> 01:15:29.554
[SPEAKER_00]: It has kind of become iconic in a way.

01:15:30.916 --> 01:15:36.304
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a current Instagram meme where

01:15:36.993 --> 01:16:06.645
[SPEAKER_00]: people who like to kind of do do some pretty fun stuff with songs like there's just one that I saw where there's a woman portraying herself as a backup singer in the studio on the night that Parker recorded that song and she's that kind of vibe in and then they'll play some of the lyrics and she should go like just you know it's kind of taken on a second life and maybe

01:16:06.777 --> 01:16:12.767
[SPEAKER_00]: far away from what had happened, people can kind of now have fun with it again.

01:16:12.807 --> 01:16:13.187
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

01:16:13.548 --> 01:16:15.050
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still kind of eerie to me.

01:16:15.170 --> 01:16:19.758
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, yeah, I don't think I've ever had the best time with that song.

01:16:21.661 --> 01:16:25.226
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's just a reflection on the type of person you are.

01:16:25.327 --> 01:16:33.139
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can listen to that song and not feel a certain way, I sort of just question what kind of person you are.

01:16:33.625 --> 01:16:43.678
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, another bad thing about it is that it just kind of set the stage for every hip-hop beef that followed where then you have a bunch of people drew on the sidelines wondering, or somebody's going to get shot.

01:16:43.718 --> 01:16:43.998
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:16:46.742 --> 01:16:54.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, doze people license to say the most absolutely foul stuff, you know, on on a record.

01:16:54.091 --> 01:16:57.355
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, man, I just like, I can't get behind that.

01:16:57.875 --> 01:17:08.186
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's, we're gonna save our, our top five two box stuff and we'll kind of rank the albums in our top five episode that we'll come on after this one.

01:17:08.506 --> 01:17:15.693
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll save kind of where we sit with certain songs, but I wanted to do the Grammys Redux here.

01:17:16.254 --> 01:17:18.536
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's like my favorite, my favorite part of this show.

01:17:20.278 --> 01:17:20.378
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:17:20.398 --> 01:17:20.679
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point.

01:17:20.699 --> 01:17:24.322
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so two buck was not nominated for very many Grammys.

01:17:24.422 --> 01:17:25.924
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a short career.

01:17:25.904 --> 01:17:32.011
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a hip hop in of itself had had a short career at the Grammys at this point in time.

01:17:32.992 --> 01:17:33.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:17:33.253 --> 01:17:40.601
[SPEAKER_00]: So two back is nominated for best rap album in 1996 for me against the world.

01:17:41.702 --> 01:17:51.574
[SPEAKER_00]: He faced naughty by nature for poverty's paradise, bone thug for 1999 eternal.

01:17:51.925 --> 01:17:57.332
[SPEAKER_00]: old dirty for return to the 36 chambers and skillow for I wish.

01:17:58.012 --> 01:18:18.017
[SPEAKER_00]: Out of those I've do you remember who won on not one it was the first ever rap uh best rap album Grammy word no way what was the what was the was best rap song the the the first was just best rap performance okay okay and then in 95 they added a bunch of categories

01:18:18.655 --> 01:18:26.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so 90 by nature one out of all of those albums as far as what has kind of withstood the test of time.

01:18:26.786 --> 01:18:30.210
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think me against the world holds up well.

01:18:30.671 --> 01:18:43.768
[SPEAKER_00]: I was never the biggest naughty fan, so I don't really know their discography very well, but that

01:18:45.098 --> 01:18:57.100
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for their fandom like they still have a giant fan base absolutely it's crazy absolutely yeah so I think I think that that is a shout out to them for still being able to do that.

01:18:57.181 --> 01:19:00.947
[SPEAKER_00]: in, you know, now so many years later, all right.

01:19:01.067 --> 01:19:06.374
[SPEAKER_00]: So for the same year, best rap solo performance, I think this one was actually pretty easy, by the way.

01:19:07.316 --> 01:19:13.365
[SPEAKER_00]: Kulio Gangstas Paradise was the winner, that, of course, I mean, because it's almost everywhere.

01:19:13.425 --> 01:19:19.133
[SPEAKER_00]: How big he was, like, at that time, that movie, everything that makes all of a sense.

01:19:19.153 --> 01:19:21.096
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just a gigantic record.

01:19:21.295 --> 01:19:34.914
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, uh, in the nominees to Pockford, Dear Mama, which was fantastic, Biggie for Big Pappa, uh, Dr. Dre for keep their heads ringing and Skeelo coming back going like, hey, guys, remember me.

01:19:35.435 --> 01:19:43.206
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because, okay, so Kulio wins just because it was the biggest song, but you had Pock Dre and Biggie all in the same category.

01:19:43.286 --> 01:19:44.708
[SPEAKER_00]: That's incredible.

01:19:45.029 --> 01:19:46.371
[SPEAKER_01]: And three good songs, too.

01:19:46.551 --> 01:19:47.893
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my vote.

01:19:48.903 --> 01:19:51.406
[SPEAKER_01]: might have been for Pock and both of those categories.

01:19:52.788 --> 01:20:02.641
[SPEAKER_01]: Me against the world was definitely the strongest album of those five, the only one of those five that I would even listen to a little bit today.

01:20:04.363 --> 01:20:09.249
[SPEAKER_01]: But as far as the songs go, I mean, big pop as a great song, keep their heads ringing as a great song.

01:20:11.412 --> 01:20:15.838
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any of those three, but dear mama has like an emotional resonance.

01:20:15.818 --> 01:20:21.868
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the 97 Grammys for all eyes on me, Pock is already passed away at this point.

01:20:23.030 --> 01:20:26.536
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going head up against the Fuji's for the score.

01:20:26.596 --> 01:20:29.582
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this in our Lauren Hill episode.

01:20:30.443 --> 01:20:32.406
[SPEAKER_00]: The Fuji's win out of the year, 97.

01:20:32.466 --> 01:20:34.570
[SPEAKER_00]: So RIP John Forte.

01:20:34.550 --> 01:20:35.692
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, PJ on 4th day.

01:20:35.732 --> 01:20:37.995
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about John 4th day in that episode as well.

01:20:39.958 --> 01:20:45.946
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, Beatriz and life gangsters paradise and Mr. Smith are up there.

01:20:46.006 --> 01:20:53.357
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the correct album one for 97 and then for rap performance by duo or group.

01:20:54.238 --> 01:20:56.541
[SPEAKER_00]: This one is tougher.

01:20:56.521 --> 01:21:03.552
[SPEAKER_00]: Two podcasts nominated twice in this category loses out to the foodies again for killing me softly.

01:21:03.572 --> 01:21:06.537
[SPEAKER_00]: So California love and how do you want it were nominated?

01:21:06.617 --> 01:21:09.862
[SPEAKER_00]: So was Salt and Peppa champagne?

01:21:10.703 --> 01:21:12.466
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think for first of the month.

01:21:12.526 --> 01:21:13.688
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember champagne.

01:21:13.969 --> 01:21:15.050
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember champagne.

01:21:15.070 --> 01:21:16.232
[SPEAKER_01]: It was from a soundtrack.

01:21:16.372 --> 01:21:19.517
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:21:19.958 --> 01:21:21.280
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,

01:21:21.580 --> 01:21:26.207
[SPEAKER_00]: Best wrap performance by duo or group for a song in which Lauren Hill just sings.

01:21:26.928 --> 01:21:28.911
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, that song doesn't have any wrapping in it.

01:21:29.452 --> 01:21:30.153
[SPEAKER_00]: One time.

01:21:30.213 --> 01:21:33.698
[SPEAKER_01]: What did they do?

01:21:33.858 --> 01:21:34.639
[SPEAKER_01]: What were they thinking?

01:21:34.659 --> 01:21:39.366
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, the stream, Rupon, everything I guess was on a wrap album.

01:21:39.386 --> 01:21:39.687
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess.

01:21:40.949 --> 01:21:42.711
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm okay.

01:21:43.312 --> 01:21:44.293
[SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.

01:21:44.814 --> 01:21:50.102
[SPEAKER_01]: Come.

01:21:50.470 --> 01:21:54.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait a minute, hold on, because I had to look that up.

01:21:54.921 --> 01:21:56.124
[SPEAKER_01]: Wikipedia is telling me different.

01:21:56.325 --> 01:21:58.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now you may have better information than me.

01:21:58.771 --> 01:22:00.936
[SPEAKER_01]: Er, according to Wikipedia,

01:22:01.338 --> 01:22:04.762
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking at replacements by do our group right for 97.

01:22:04.842 --> 01:22:05.202
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:22:05.262 --> 01:22:05.763
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:22:06.043 --> 01:22:09.927
[SPEAKER_01]: So two pack was nominated twice for California love and for how do you want it?

01:22:11.008 --> 01:22:18.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Champagne was nominated once again by a tribe called Quest and the winner ended up being crossroads.

01:22:18.897 --> 01:22:19.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:22:19.237 --> 01:22:19.958
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes more sense.

01:22:20.378 --> 01:22:20.639
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:22:20.719 --> 01:22:21.379
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes more sense.

01:22:21.460 --> 01:22:23.542
[SPEAKER_00]: Crossroads is a fine winner as well.

01:22:23.582 --> 01:22:23.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:22:24.383 --> 01:22:24.723
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:22:25.304 --> 01:22:25.584
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:22:25.604 --> 01:22:31.210
[SPEAKER_00]: So then two pack would be nominated again.

01:22:31.645 --> 01:22:48.143
[SPEAKER_00]: a couple of different times for posh and stuff, but outside of changes, uh, and the McEvelli album, what else is there for like post, death, two-pock stuff that you would even remember?

01:22:48.183 --> 01:22:48.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember?

01:22:49.384 --> 01:22:54.610
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard because they put out so much of it so fast, and all of it kind of blends together.

01:22:54.690 --> 01:22:59.475
[SPEAKER_01]: Wasn't there like a podcast that Eminem produced or something

01:23:00.603 --> 01:23:04.310
[SPEAKER_00]: there's a song with Pock and Biggie on it.

01:23:05.172 --> 01:23:05.393
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:23:05.433 --> 01:23:07.236
[SPEAKER_00]: Called, I think it's called Running.

01:23:07.256 --> 01:23:07.537
[SPEAKER_00]: Running.

01:23:07.878 --> 01:23:09.862
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know that song, I know.

01:23:10.984 --> 01:23:18.038
[SPEAKER_00]: Eminem has some stuff on one of those albums as well.

01:23:18.490 --> 01:23:24.439
[SPEAKER_00]: There was the, are you still down, which is actually the same title of the song that he did with John B. John B.

01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:29.828
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that's a legitimate song like that thing wasn't scrapped together like those guys knew each other.

01:23:29.868 --> 01:23:33.734
[SPEAKER_01]: They were, yeah, and that John B record came out like a week after two podcast.

01:23:33.754 --> 01:23:37.560
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, oh, no, maybe not came out like a year after two.

01:23:37.580 --> 01:23:39.203
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, September 1997.

01:23:39.323 --> 01:23:39.563
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:23:39.583 --> 01:23:43.249
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, so he was sitting on that for a little while.

01:23:43.398 --> 01:23:45.765
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like, I remember that.

01:23:45.846 --> 01:23:48.875
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you still down album came out because that was the first one.

01:23:48.955 --> 01:23:49.878
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was excited.

01:23:49.918 --> 01:23:50.640
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I heard it.

01:23:50.660 --> 01:23:57.762
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yeah, it's not there's not like changes came out on a greatest hits album.

01:23:58.197 --> 01:24:11.049
[SPEAKER_00]: and changes is a really good song, changes is a really good song, but if you listen to a wonder if Heaven got a ghetto and changes, they are very similar.

01:24:11.109 --> 01:24:20.018
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost feel like two Pock recorded sort of the same verses and put them together slightly differently to create the different songs.

01:24:20.078 --> 01:24:24.762
[SPEAKER_00]: Like almost the point of where he was like, okay, I wonder Heaven got a ghetto

01:24:24.742 --> 01:24:26.427
[SPEAKER_00]: good, like it's not how I want it.

01:24:26.447 --> 01:24:27.410
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm doing this way.

01:24:28.454 --> 01:24:31.804
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, there's a still I rise with the outlaws.

01:24:31.865 --> 01:24:34.212
[SPEAKER_00]: If you had, um,

01:24:35.153 --> 01:24:46.549
[SPEAKER_00]: access to all of the bootlegs, like there are songs where he's like dissoned, Lauren Hill, and he's dissoned the food cheese, and he's dissoned like all these people.

01:24:46.669 --> 01:24:54.720
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were done with the original production, but then when they came out years and years later, they had different production on them for whatever reason.

01:24:54.740 --> 01:24:58.005
[SPEAKER_00]: So that, I mean, there's still stuff like I heard

01:24:57.985 --> 01:25:18.897
[SPEAKER_00]: an interview with Sean Stockman and ED Amine and he's like yeah we still got one song out there that we're trying to fit for the 30 essentially for the 30th year anniversary passing yeah so I think that's what they're what they're saving up for but then ED Amine was talking about having grandkids and I was like oh my gosh we're so old

01:25:18.877 --> 01:25:19.478
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah man.

01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:21.240
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

01:25:21.761 --> 01:25:26.268
[SPEAKER_00]: So just we'll quickly go over the the sales you had mentioned to Pac-Lips now.

01:25:26.889 --> 01:25:29.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Still not platinum after all these years.

01:25:29.532 --> 01:25:37.424
[SPEAKER_00]: Strickly went platinum, Megan's the world went to two X or three X and then all eyes on me.

01:25:37.844 --> 01:25:41.870
[SPEAKER_00]: Macavelli, which what was the release date for Macavelli?

01:25:42.391 --> 01:25:44.334
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean not long after he passed.

01:25:45.155 --> 01:25:48.580
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they just

01:25:49.066 --> 01:25:55.375
[SPEAKER_01]: It came out, let's see, he passed away the 13th of September, right?

01:25:57.238 --> 01:25:58.059
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think so.

01:25:58.099 --> 01:26:04.969
[SPEAKER_01]: The McEvelli album came out in November 5th, 1996, so about six weeks after he passed away.

01:26:05.549 --> 01:26:11.037
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't imagine that that was the original idea was to put that.

01:26:11.057 --> 01:26:11.698
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was.

01:26:11.838 --> 01:26:18.668
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it that year to get to, so was that from him or was that like the

01:26:18.766 --> 01:26:23.511
[SPEAKER_00]: the shug night marketing to because why would you want him to be at a contract so quickly.

01:26:26.292 --> 01:26:37.462
[SPEAKER_01]: there's a whole conspiracy theory about all of that stuff, um, but if I remember correctly, two Pock was actually talking about the McEvelle album when he was alive.

01:26:37.962 --> 01:26:38.903
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do remember.

01:26:38.923 --> 01:26:43.147
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, and you know, it was definitely always going to come out before the end of the year.

01:26:43.187 --> 01:26:48.712
[SPEAKER_00]: He makes reference to himself as McEvelle on, uh, all as on me.

01:26:49.192 --> 01:26:49.433
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:26:50.353 --> 01:26:55.438
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,

01:26:57.207 --> 01:26:57.808
[SPEAKER_00]: interesting.

01:26:58.169 --> 01:27:12.938
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I always, I just, I don't know why I assumed and maybe it's just because, I don't know that's that album felt super like, it felt like there were songs on there that you know, maybe it needed a little bit more time for people to kind of pick through it.

01:27:13.373 --> 01:27:26.953
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just assume that, you know, you don't ever really put two albums out in same year, especially when the other album was still, you know, it was still out there and still popular, just very, very, very interesting.

01:27:27.353 --> 01:27:28.134
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:27:28.154 --> 01:27:41.153
[SPEAKER_00]: So as far as the poshramas stuff, are you still down sold a ton because it was, you know, out the next year, the greatest hits came out in 98 and that sold a ton.

01:27:41.133 --> 01:27:53.627
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he had still, I rise with the outlaws in 99 until the end of time, 2001, better days, 2004, loyal to the game, or better days, 2002, loyal to the game, 2004.

01:27:55.209 --> 01:27:57.572
[SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't there a song with Elton John?

01:27:58.493 --> 01:28:01.677
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's not one of those M&M, that was the M&M producer record.

01:28:01.717 --> 01:28:02.678
[SPEAKER_01]: Get O'Gospel.

01:28:03.479 --> 01:28:04.520
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Elton John.

01:28:05.561 --> 01:28:07.123
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep getting them checks, Elton.

01:28:07.593 --> 01:28:10.977
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, so I don't know.

01:28:11.057 --> 01:28:32.284
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still, I still, I mean, I feel a lot better about talking about this because, you know, we are now two grown adults talking about someone who's been gone for so long and uh, someone who meant a lot to me growing up living out in this area, but I think I think the thing I got out of that book the most is

01:28:33.682 --> 01:28:52.872
[SPEAKER_00]: It made him human to me again, because there's a space where he passes away and then he's just it's the legend of Tupac versus this was an actual human being right who was on this earth and just being a normal dude or being a kid being a teenager.

01:28:53.645 --> 01:29:06.008
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that book, and then doing this with you, of course, you know, I like the idea of the human versus topock this mythological thing that's out there.

01:29:06.128 --> 01:29:07.851
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there are a lot of people gravitate to.

01:29:07.931 --> 01:29:08.312
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

01:29:08.984 --> 01:29:18.933
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree and I think it's just important to understand the humanity of people and why they may choose to do some of the things that they do.

01:29:19.453 --> 01:29:38.350
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and again, like I haven't read the book yet, but from what I understand, like two-pot came up a certain way and you know, a big thing for him was acceptance, you know, and he wanted to be accepted by his people, his homeboys, you know, his friends, whatever.

01:29:38.330 --> 01:30:04.708
[SPEAKER_01]: not in movies but like over the course of you know his adult life were ways of getting accepted like you know as part of the hip-hop community you know as part of like you know the crew that was that he was running with at any given time whether it was like you know the thugs in New York that he was hanging out with when he was making juice whether it was you know the gangsters in California that he was hanging out with after resigning death row whatever it was like he was he was a chameleon

01:30:05.330 --> 01:30:11.656
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that he was trying to like be all of these different people just as a way of gaining acceptance.

01:30:11.676 --> 01:30:19.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, I think that, you know, didn't work out the way that, you know, it would have been great for it to work out.

01:30:21.905 --> 01:30:25.709
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I really do think that that's kind of where he was trying to go.

01:30:25.729 --> 01:30:26.970
[SPEAKER_01]: He was just trying to find a home.

01:30:27.991 --> 01:30:34.797
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we have this section of kind of like unanswerable questions or, you know, just things I throw out there for us to think about.

01:30:34.895 --> 01:30:42.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, in our current political landscape and even the first Trump presidency, I kind of wondered.

01:30:42.684 --> 01:30:53.215
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know why I thought about this, but I was like wondered like, okay, if two puck didn't pass away, is he an outspoken person in this timeframe?

01:30:53.396 --> 01:30:56.099
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he somebody who has looked at as a thought leader?

01:30:56.139 --> 01:31:04.648
[SPEAKER_00]: As a, you know, 50 year old man, 55 year old man, um, like,

01:31:05.253 --> 01:31:17.237
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Chuck D, you know, Chuck D is outspoken, but he's not out there, you know, ring in the alarm bells about certain things, you know, Chuck, he's also a lot older.

01:31:17.257 --> 01:31:18.379
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also a lot older.

01:31:18.619 --> 01:31:18.860
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:31:18.900 --> 01:31:20.443
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if he wasn't a buddy, you know,

01:31:20.761 --> 01:31:44.052
[SPEAKER_00]: the amount of people that are listening is relatively spa me to pocket there's an influence that pocket I don't know if that influence would still exist today or not but because Chuck may have had that in like the late eighties but hip-hop is so much smaller back then right and hip-hop also turns quickly but you know I had this discussion with my friend Kevin last night

01:31:45.078 --> 01:31:48.824
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about, actually we're talking about what would happen, what would have happened to biggy at lips.

01:31:50.666 --> 01:32:00.742
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, also if pocket lived, you have to reset everything that's happened in the last 30 years for hip hop, you know, Drey's career is different.

01:32:00.802 --> 01:32:01.823
[SPEAKER_01]: Sugar is different.

01:32:01.863 --> 01:32:02.805
[SPEAKER_01]: Biggie's career is different.

01:32:02.865 --> 01:32:03.786
[SPEAKER_01]: Puff's career is different.

01:32:03.866 --> 01:32:04.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Jay's career is different.

01:32:05.308 --> 01:32:10.476
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if Puff lives all of this stuff changes, and there is very much snoops career is different.

01:32:10.937 --> 01:32:13.060
[SPEAKER_01]: There is very much the possibility that,

01:32:14.137 --> 01:32:34.356
[SPEAKER_01]: particularly because it seemed like pop was about to make a pivot away from kind of the gangster stuff after his death row contract ended that he would gone back to doing you know sort of pro black political you know music and he would have like he wouldn't just be standing up against this regime he would have been standing up to bush he would have been you know

01:32:34.336 --> 01:32:38.460
[SPEAKER_01]: everything that's happened in the last 30 years, I think he would have put a stamp on it.

01:32:38.480 --> 01:32:49.870
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was so charismatic, and also so much of like a multi-disciplinary artist, like even if the hip hop record just stopped selling, he would end up actually, and this is what we discussed last night.

01:32:49.950 --> 01:32:51.532
[SPEAKER_01]: Two pop might have been Will Smith.

01:32:56.296 --> 01:33:03.803
[SPEAKER_00]: There were roles before he passed away

01:33:04.019 --> 01:33:22.001
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to make a quick buck and I need to kind of get my foot back in the door here because my reputation in Hollywood is probably because of what I was, you know, what I was in jail for, it may be a little harder for him to get back in to that whole fraternity or whatever.

01:33:22.041 --> 01:33:26.626
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do I do wonder about that gridlocked was actually a really good performance.

01:33:26.666 --> 01:33:33.975
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's in gridlocked.

01:33:34.259 --> 01:33:51.188
[SPEAKER_00]: that's an interesting it's an interesting thing i don't i do wonder there was a a bigness to will smith because of the fresh principal error actually we had changed it we said two pop would not have been will smith he would have been ice cube he could have been ice cube yeah

01:33:53.058 --> 01:33:57.403
[SPEAKER_00]: which is funny because they were going for the same role in higher learning, right?

01:33:57.683 --> 01:33:58.564
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:33:58.584 --> 01:34:04.730
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the ice cube of today, though, is not who I think Tupac would have been on the political spectrum.

01:34:05.031 --> 01:34:05.271
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:34:05.431 --> 01:34:05.611
[SPEAKER_01]: No.

01:34:05.892 --> 01:34:06.993
[SPEAKER_01]: You're absolutely right about that.

01:34:07.914 --> 01:34:10.917
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just in terms of like career.

01:34:10.997 --> 01:34:15.322
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Tupac, I think, would have had a fairly long and successful film career.

01:34:15.462 --> 01:34:15.662
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:34:16.042 --> 01:34:16.703
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

01:34:16.883 --> 01:34:19.386
[SPEAKER_00]: But,

01:34:20.227 --> 01:34:26.542
[SPEAKER_00]: how he grew up, his mother's influence on him, the Black Panthers just in general, that mindset.

01:34:26.562 --> 01:34:26.722
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:34:27.343 --> 01:34:37.527
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he would have been a thought leader and maybe some of that is wishful thinking, but you know, I do think that he would have grown, he would have matured into someone who,

01:34:39.447 --> 01:35:03.244
[SPEAKER_00]: you know younger generations respected for his views yeah I would I would hope so too but that goes again that goes back to the idea of who he was versus who we wanted him to be or who we hope that he would be right that one is probably closer to than to some of these other things that you know people uh think about him so I I've always leaned towards that I've always had that in the back of my mind too of

01:35:03.224 --> 01:35:10.725
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where he may have kind of turned to in his career in his adulthood, which we never got to see.

01:35:10.805 --> 01:35:11.908
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's right.

01:35:12.450 --> 01:35:12.871
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

01:35:12.891 --> 01:35:14.435
[SPEAKER_00]: That is going to be it for here.

01:35:15.057 --> 01:35:18.246
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have our top five episode.

01:35:18.226 --> 01:35:25.095
[SPEAKER_00]: soon on Pock's career and also the interview with Jeff Pearlman, which I really enjoyed.

01:35:25.156 --> 01:35:37.633
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks everybody for checking out 50 50 you can we have a little there's a community tab on the on the YouTube page that I will start posting a little bit more to just to see if people interact that way.

01:35:37.753 --> 01:35:38.614
[SPEAKER_00]: But

01:35:38.763 --> 01:35:46.140
[SPEAKER_00]: GG at BSPN media.com or if you can find me elsewhere and you are interested in being part of the discord.

01:35:46.160 --> 01:35:55.683
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to get more music discussion going in the sports discord that I have and centered around what Mike and I are talking about.

01:35:55.723 --> 01:35:57.126
[SPEAKER_00]: So,

01:35:57.106 --> 01:36:18.996
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're interested in doing that, hit me up and we'll get you in there and yeah, so come find us 50 for 50 dot net where you can find everything like on YouTube and subscribe and also subscribe to the podcast feeds so for Mike I'm double G see you when we see you piece out later