Confessions & The Usher Story: A Full Career Deep Dive

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're back, 50 for 50.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this is an episode that I wondered if we even needed a rundown for, because I feel like I know usher's career pretty well.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The Confessions album, of course, is his giant, I mean, the guy's been successful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much since his second album, but that was the biggie, and that's what we're gonna talk about today.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, though,

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[SPEAKER_01]: There's some fall-off after confessions, if you didn't that discography.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of stuff in confessions is 22 years ago, and you make a lot of records.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Some people make a lot of records in 22 years, and usher is one of those people.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And they, you know, about giving too much a way that have not been the same quality level.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yet, and

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[SPEAKER_01]: This is this is the age old argument, which is how do you age as an artist at one point usher was the youngest dude in the game and now he's one of the oldest dudes in the game still making records, which is kind of crazy.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of people don't really get to see that that path, that evolution to have like a 30 something year career and still, you know, do just sold out stadiums or arenas, I guess, arenas or smaller than stadiums, but just sold out, you know, arenas, so that's a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is he what he's on on tour with Chris Brown.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought the tour ended, but I'm not 100% sure and that seemed to be fairly successful.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I saw people sending me photos who went and I was like, yeah, I can't do Chris Brown, but I would have done, I would have done a Nusher, something or other feed come around, you know, him and somebody else, but I wasn't going to do this Brown.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would see usher in a small venue.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like in an arena, you're just going to end up looking at screens anyway.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and at arena ticket prices like I'm not looking at TV for $150 to $200, but I'll share with like a small like he did root picnic a couple of years ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and that I think would have been kind of fun to watch.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what that tour is like?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Because I remember, remember going to see the new kids, this is years and years and years ago.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I'm there because I like these guys, but that show was not for me, like, I didn't need to change and close and stuff like that kind of thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is his act like does he just dial up the sexuality, even at his older 40s age?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, first thing is that I should kind of has looked the same for the last 20 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, it doesn't feel like it's not the old man at the club vibes necessarily.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And his fans are his fans started out at his age and now are still his age.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So he's kind of

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[SPEAKER_00]: doing the same thing for the same audience, I haven't seen any footage from the show, but I mean usher shows, you know, there was an infamous thing at his Vegas residency a year or two, go with Kiki Palmer, I think his shows have always been kind of like lady centric.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like so I feel like he's any kid.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming, you know, for a guy that's in, I think his mid 40s now or late 40s, like two years younger than us.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Bob sounds about right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He can't move the way that he used to.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine he's got some aches and pains from all of the stuff that he did when he was younger, so he can't be as athletic as he used to be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I would imagine it's much more like a slow jam more than that's what the lady maybe then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's probably smart move.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's where you got those songs.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you remember him from before I remember him because you remember him from his 1994 debut album.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't I never heard that album until later.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I would have remembered him from you make me want to, but you go all the way back to 1994 with us here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, even before that, usher came out, the first song he put out was called Call Me a Mac, and it was on the poet Augustus soundtrack, which came out in 93, and I don't even think he was usher that I think it was usher Raymond, went by his full name, and I remember that being on the soundtrack.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And there might have been a video for that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not 100% sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But then when it's first album came out in 1994 and I think the first single was can you get with it and then think of you was kind of like a popular song in New York So yeah, I mean I've been kind of tracking us here from day one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't buy that first album.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I only didn't until many years later But I think partially because because of the bad boy connection Usher kind of broke out in New York

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[SPEAKER_01]: Why did that album not work do you think?

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was too young, he would have been what, like, 16, 15, 14, something like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in 1993, I was 17, usher would have been, I think, like, 14.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, seven Campbell already existed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was just super popular, teen male singer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I don't think at the time audiences

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[SPEAKER_00]: needed a Kevin Campbell and an usher.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of like one of the other.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Listening back to that album.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a little bit more like, now, Kevin Campbell is singing about some teenage stuff that, you know, can we talk like, want to talk to a to, you know, a someone who who you like, but there's also like more adultish themes and songs.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Usher's was a little bit more like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: juvenile, like more like, I'm the man kind of stuff and he's at, I mean, I can say he's pretty young.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, it's an interesting time frame in 94 where I wonder, had he come out even in the early 90s if it had worked.

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[SPEAKER_01]: better than in the mid 90s, but I'm glad the way that it did work because he had a chance to kind of go back to the drawing board and figure out what the later stage teenage usher was going to be like and it was absolutely a hundred percent successful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the difference between the music industry then and the music industry now is that they burned an album on usher and, you know, then the second album blew up and he became the usher he is today, but, you know, that first album didn't really sell and, you know, in 2026, if you don't pop off right away, you're not necessarily going to get a second chance.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's go back to 2004, 2004, and just talk about the ongoings and music for that year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Something that we talked about in our Janet episode, February 1st, Jen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, we're going to talk about the city.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

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[SPEAKER_01]: They are performing at Super Bowl and the performance concludes with Janet's right breast being exposed to the audience and the phrase wardrobe malfunction is coined during the ensuing controversy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about that in the Janet episode.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about it in the just in episode.

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[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've created a little clip on YouTube of that conversation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So even outside of the Janet episode, there's a separate YouTube video if you want to check that out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, over, you know, maybe the most, uh, I don't know, overblown thing in one of the most overblown things in our lives, I think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: February the 48th annual Grammys outcast speaker box the love below becomes the first wrap album to an album of the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Beyonce wins five, cold plays, clocks wins record while Luther Vandross is a dance with my father wins song, evanescence wins best new artist.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Speakerbox love below where does that sit in your like I'm gonna listen to some outcast what am I going to put on rankings?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Aw man

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I would listen to both those albums all the way through.

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[SPEAKER_00]: They're great songs on both of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's also stuff that's maybe like not as great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if I'm going to put an outcast album on and listen to it, start to finish.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a quimin' eye.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's ambitious.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I like kind of like the concept of like each member having like their own album.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, but there was definitely some stuff on there that was a super weird and be not as listenable in retrospect.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just too much.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's like two full albums.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just way too much music.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there was the age old argument, which side was better, which which were great.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Big boys.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, very much apples and oranges, you know, they're two very, very different records.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I will say there was a long period of time where I was like, if I hear, hey, yeah, one more got damn time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a kick radios, breaking P3 players, like whatever that song was just everywhere.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And now I can listen to it again, but it was, it was so pervasive everywhere.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in retrospect, what he actually reminds me a lot of, you remember that MJ track that was unreleased.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Is it called if you don't love me or something like that?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it kind of reminds me of that song a little bit a little bit That there's come a little little smidge Okay, I Guess I on that list but of all the outcast stuff Andre's a fluid album probably comes in last I you know I It's a good album to fall asleep

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's how they should have sold it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like you've taken all this ambient and melatonin, just thrown on straight through thousands of fluid out of them.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, March 23rd, 2004, usher releases Confessions, selling 1.1 million copies in his first week, making him the first R&B artist to ever accomplish that, it would be the top seller of the year.

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[SPEAKER_01]: May 10th this is I only put this just because I was wondering what you thought Blender magazine's may issue includes the 50 worst songs ever list You remember that magazine What do you think they would have put at number one pretty sure we built this city was the number one We're song of all time according to Blender.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I I used to be an obsessive reader of blender and I had that starship

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not an awful song, I mean, I could think of a lot of, I mean, particularly now, like, going to throw in some like Lafay Taffy or soldier boy or, uh, Macha Renner, like one of those, like, you know, whatever, pair of something has a whole album.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look,

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you remember, I reviewed that parasitic album for Epingons.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I did.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was better than I assumed that it was going to be, uh-huh, me too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Which is not to say it was very good, but, you know, um, yeah, man, I, uh, and the one song on the parasitic album that I thought was kind of catchy featured a sample from the song from Greece.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Which one of the Greece, um, Greece is the word?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Really?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I literally, I've wiped that out from my memory.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: May 24th.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Madonna starts the reinvention tour.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We did a Madonna episode a couple of weeks ago.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Finished it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: In 20 cities with a total of 56 shows, making it the most successful concert tour of the year, grossing 124.5 million.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Good home, Madonna, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Good home.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, back to American Idol here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: May 26th, Fantasia wins season three, defeating Diana de Garmo.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a name I haven't heard a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha ha.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Where does Fantasia rank on like your favorite idol?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Favorite people to come out of American Idol?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like first of all, there is a checkout time for me in American Idol.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I remember you were super into it back in the day.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it took me a couple of seasons.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think the first season of Idol I really watched was the season that Taylor Hicks, you actually want.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of records, I mean, I think there's Kelly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Jay HUD, and then Fantasia, maybe number three, I don't really listen to Carrie Underwood, so I don't know what her records are like very much, but after that, things kind of fall off pretty sharply.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know who listens to Carrie Underwood?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Who?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Donald Trump.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, and probably not.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He probably doesn't, but I was loved the idea of Fantasia.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think,

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[SPEAKER_01]: She probably, you know, as far as what she's really good at, I think she's had some ups and downs, I think doing stuff like the color purple stuff was was really strong for her, but trying to kind of shoehorn her into

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[SPEAKER_01]: a certain demographic which you had to win you won American idol because they just wanted you to immediately put out an album and they wanted to sell it so that they could always point back to the show like oh look with this number one album by this person i mean not number one but.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know coming out of.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Kelly, and then Rubin, and then Fantasia being third, like, I thought that she was really, really strong, and yet I'm not sure that her albums really showcased her skill set as well as they could have back then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know, they tried to middle Americanize her a little bit and, you know, Fantasia ain't playing to, you know, Billy and Joey in the country, you know what I'm

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, she's a Southern girl.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's a sister.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She's she's her, she is her best, her best audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like her demographic is her best audience.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The music that her demographic loves is the music that Fantasia feels most at home making and her best records have come from kind of like that deep R and B place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so I was trying to think because, like you said, I used, I didn't really like American Adel as much as I liked writing about it and making one of it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, if when it comes down to it, she's probably in my top four or five favorite people to ever be on that show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, we're fast forwarding all the way to September here.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Britney Spears Mary's Kevin Fetterline.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so here's the part of this story that I had forgotten.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Earlier that year, she marries somebody else.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Jason Alexander Cat.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and they get that thing annulled within like a day and are maybe two days or something.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so then she then does the same thing with Kevin Fetterland who I believe was a backup was one of her dancers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so what happened to this one getting annulled where it wasn't she wasn't her parents like really on top of this stuff back then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, hey, she's a grown-ass woman at this point, so she can do whatever the hell she wants to do.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever, got an old.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the essence of this.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, someone needs to write a book called, like Britney Spears 25 years of bad decisions.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think you wrote it, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have to think and and look through to see how much she she blamed on herself versus others, but probably not much.

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[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people like that book from the people who are Brittany fans.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that means though.

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[SPEAKER_01]: October 23rd actually Simpson Saturday, now live accused of lip-sicking after the live performance on the show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly,

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[SPEAKER_01]: the music that was being played for her starts to fail and she had nothing and then she started to like dance a jigger do those stupid dance yet that's what i remember i don't remember for those exactly what happened but i think that's what happened yeah actually sims and huh

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as she was I think she was bigger than her sister for a period of time her sister has a voice I don't I mean I thought Ashley Simpson's voice was just kind of like whatever but could she really not sing like was that the she could sing

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not sure why she was singing and not to mention the band was playing to a track.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure why that happened because I think she was perfectly capable of singing that song on her own, maybe because it was live TV.

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[SPEAKER_00]: People just want to take like extra precautions or whatever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was blown up to something that it didn't need to be.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know, it just, it felt like it was overblown and, you know, I'm pretty sure that there had been people on SNL since then who have lip synced.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember Kanye something happened with his vocals as well, where, because he was going through the vocoder, I believe for that specific song, and I just remember something going off on that performance, too.

19:17.274 --> 19:29.043
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, November 12th, Eminem's fourth major studio album on core is released four days before schedule to combat internet bootleggers.

19:30.064 --> 19:30.424
[SPEAKER_01]: The album.

19:30.464 --> 19:31.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember the internet bootleggers?

19:32.265 --> 19:43.774
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, the album goes so 710,000 copies and only three days and becomes Eminem's third consecutive album today, but you at number one.

19:46.160 --> 19:58.706
[SPEAKER_01]: And then November 30th, Jay-Z and Lincoln Parks, collision course day, day-buse atop the Billboard 200, later becoming the best-selling CD slash DVD of that year.

20:01.127 --> 20:05.889
[SPEAKER_01]: So they had the album and then there was a video of their performances, too.

20:05.929 --> 20:07.650
[SPEAKER_01]: That was, I think so.

20:08.570 --> 20:15.233
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, have you seen this Jay-Z and Rick Ruben discussion on HBO Max?

20:16.008 --> 20:21.895
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not, I read an article about it yesterday and, you know, I'm not a 100% certain I want to watch it.

20:23.216 --> 20:28.623
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some interesting clips that are going around social, okay.

20:29.924 --> 20:32.808
[SPEAKER_01]: One of them is about Tupac and Biggie.

20:34.457 --> 20:43.545
[SPEAKER_01]: And Rick asks now this is completely out of the context of what they were talking about because it's just a three minute clip that I saw so just I just want to preface with that.

20:44.486 --> 20:46.348
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Rick just asked him about the beef.

20:47.729 --> 20:49.090
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jay Z said.

20:51.673 --> 20:52.794
[SPEAKER_01]: Two podcast blown up.

20:54.475 --> 20:57.318
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's starting to hang out with.

20:59.233 --> 21:03.515
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude's who are probably not, you know, not in his best interest to hang out with.

21:04.495 --> 21:10.458
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Biggie tells him, hey, these guys that you're running around with like these are dangerous dudes.

21:10.818 --> 21:13.419
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you may not want to hang out with these guys.

21:14.619 --> 21:19.642
[SPEAKER_01]: Supposedly, now this is where I'm sure there's way more context of this story.

21:20.482 --> 21:23.323
[SPEAKER_01]: But Jay-Z said, supposedly,

21:29.229 --> 21:46.962
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when those dudes turned on Pock and shot him at the Quad Studios shooting, Jaycey thinks maybe Pock was a little bit embarrassed and just decided to blame Biggie and Puffy for that scenario.

21:47.558 --> 21:58.326
[SPEAKER_01]: now I read that we read that pocket bio you read that pocket bio there is a lot of insecurity in the at least in the reporting in two pocket the human.

21:59.487 --> 22:13.978
[SPEAKER_01]: So I could see some sort of scenario in which, you know, he's directing his anger at the wrong place, but I would need to know a little bit more to connect those dots specifically the way that Jay Z did, but that's the one

22:15.879 --> 22:38.491
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was in the article I read too, but the book, if I remember correctly, there's a lot of things that kind of almost corroborate that where like, you know, Pock was hanging out with these gangster cats that certainly didn't have his best interest in heart and, you know,

22:41.130 --> 22:48.594
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that story that Jay-Z is telling isn't a new story, like it's kind of, yeah.

22:49.415 --> 22:56.959
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it, I mean, it does make sense that, I mean, you know, the only people that know what happened in that situation for real for real are pocket biggie.

22:57.459 --> 23:00.201
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're both neither one of them is here to like say what happened.

23:00.661 --> 23:04.223
[SPEAKER_00]: And even then, the two of them are going to have their own interpretation of what happened.

23:04.463 --> 23:05.143
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:05.664 --> 23:09.646
[SPEAKER_00]: But that story is not very outside of the realm of possibility.

23:10.306 --> 23:13.908
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, very clear that Tupac was an extremely insecure human being.

23:14.968 --> 23:27.755
[SPEAKER_00]: And also was operating in this, you know, came from a culture where he was not really exposed to

23:29.666 --> 23:34.341
[SPEAKER_00]: the type of people that he was running with in New York City and was kind of out of his league.

23:34.762 --> 23:37.209
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I think it makes sense.

23:38.940 --> 23:57.389
[SPEAKER_01]: The the other part of that was I think Jay Z said he and big we're going out somewhere and maybe some of those dudes were there and Jay said that big he just decided to not go because he didn't want the the Ruckus and so Jay Z was like well we're here.

23:57.469 --> 24:03.612
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna go in but something about big he didn't want to go but it's fascinating like yeah I know why

24:04.523 --> 24:24.900
[SPEAKER_01]: People don't necessarily talk talk about these things because they're still, you know, frustration about them and and such, but, you know, like we say, KVD, that whole scenario, he thinks that, you know, there's a different version of the truth that should night, should know or should tell or whatever, the

24:25.480 --> 24:32.267
[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like there's never really going to be any full resolution of this entire story.

24:32.648 --> 24:42.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know, there's been so much reporting and yet nobody is really happy with the conclusion of what has been said.

24:43.522 --> 24:49.224
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and at this point, it's 30 years after the fact, like, a lot of the people that were involved are dead.

24:50.864 --> 24:58.987
[SPEAKER_00]: So the whole point of getting to the bottom of that, like it's some boot point now because the people that can tell the story can't tell the story.

25:00.107 --> 25:01.608
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

25:02.188 --> 25:02.968
[SPEAKER_01]: So the.

25:04.868 --> 25:09.190
[SPEAKER_01]: The next note here I have, and it's last one, and I totally forgot about this.

25:09.731 --> 25:11.792
[SPEAKER_01]: This is scary, just thinking about this.

25:12.652 --> 25:23.838
[SPEAKER_01]: December 8th, Diamond Bag Daryl is murdered on stage while performing in Columbus, Ohio by a deranged fan who shoots him three times in the head, with a 9mm beretta.

25:24.318 --> 25:29.741
[SPEAKER_01]: The gunman kills three other people and wounds a further three before being shot dead by police.

25:32.793 --> 25:35.014
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like, you're performing.

25:36.154 --> 25:40.815
[SPEAKER_01]: These people are paying to watch you perform and to somebody who is able to bring a gun in and...

25:40.835 --> 25:40.995
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

25:41.375 --> 25:55.178
[SPEAKER_00]: A to bring a gun into the venue and B to be able to walk to the front of the stage and onto the stage, which, you know, if you go to a metal show, like people are staged diving and mashing and all that stuff, so people are gonna be climbing onto the stage anyway.

25:55.778 --> 26:00.800
[SPEAKER_00]: Like me personally, if I was a performer, I'd be like keep everybody off the stage,

26:04.461 --> 26:15.245
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, most venues, well, I guess if you're walking into like a bar or nightclub or something like that, you're not going to get padded down or wandered or anything like that.

26:15.345 --> 26:18.947
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's crazy to think that something like that happened.

26:20.751 --> 26:23.915
[SPEAKER_01]: We just passed the 25th anniversary of 9.11.

26:24.836 --> 26:34.988
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know you as a New Yorker have different memories than those of us who experienced it in other places in the U.S.

26:36.049 --> 26:44.472
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was talking to somebody who was working for a world wrestling entertainment back then.

26:45.913 --> 26:57.897
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my story of 9-11 is that I was on a business trip in Houston, Texas, Fly and Monday, we're supposed to be at the site.

26:58.537 --> 27:03.159
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Tuesday and maybe Wednesday and then like fly home Thursday or something.

27:03.179 --> 27:04.560
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was the idea.

27:05.520 --> 27:07.541
[SPEAKER_01]: So obviously Tuesday happens.

27:08.401 --> 27:28.607
[SPEAKER_01]: We're at the facility and, you know, the world's the, at least the United States shuts down and that Tuesday night me and my buddy were supposed to go to a world wrestling WWE show because they were supposed to be in Houston on that Tuesday.

27:29.687 --> 27:44.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, no one does any shows and then on Thursday, Vince McMahon decides that he is going to be the first company to run a live event just two days after 9.11.

27:44.896 --> 27:53.621
[SPEAKER_01]: So the person who I was talking to was working at this time and because I was just explaining my experience on this other podcast that I do.

27:54.481 --> 28:19.967
[SPEAKER_01]: and he reached out to me and he was like I can't believe you were there because we were in Houston so we just decided to go that Thursday and I will say like it was kind of eerie like you're just like wondering like what's going to happen here right and so I was asking him said you know how did you guys feel like you guys had to actually perform and be in the center of the ring and do your show like where you scared and he was like yeah like not only

28:21.607 --> 28:22.788
[SPEAKER_01]: We were away from our families.

28:23.569 --> 28:30.434
[SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't say no is what he said as far as being able to not do that show.

28:31.215 --> 28:40.242
[SPEAKER_01]: So like just the thought of like time bag Darrell like you're on stage and you are so vulnerable

28:41.303 --> 29:04.887
[SPEAKER_01]: to everything that could possibly happen from a crazy human and you just have to put your trust in your security team and the venue and all of these things that you have no control over and then you see something like that happen now I'm thankful that this doesn't happen you know more but we've had shootings at concert venues and stuff there was one in Vegas was it in Vegas?

29:06.223 --> 29:07.104
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was in Vegas.

29:07.985 --> 29:20.273
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I had a coworker who was there who told me about it like Obviously not not hurt or anything, but just how in saying that was like I imagine you you probably have Trauma for the rest of your life for being at that concert.

29:20.433 --> 29:33.743
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, this it just it's just it's wild What happens and and again thankfully doesn't have an often but when it does happen you just get shocked back into the reality that this could happen at any point

29:35.524 --> 29:41.050
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not even a situation of you being a performer or your being you being at a show or anything like that.

29:41.110 --> 29:46.876
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, you know, I grew up in New York City at a time when...

29:48.213 --> 29:59.957
[SPEAKER_00]: New York City was not as safe as it is now, and you know, I saw dudes pull out guns on the subway, you know, I, you know, I know I had friends who were shot and killed like you could be walking down a street.

29:59.997 --> 30:01.358
[SPEAKER_00]: You could be standing in front of your home.

30:01.378 --> 30:02.338
[SPEAKER_00]: You could be in your home.

30:02.518 --> 30:10.201
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember like my grandparents house got robbed when I was a kid or when I was a teenager, like you just never know what could happen.

30:11.581 --> 30:12.822
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think there's

30:14.913 --> 30:27.405
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't recommend to anybody walks through their entire life just kind of like Kettle and swivel like oh my god my god what's gonna happen to me but the reality is that anything can happen to any of us at any time Yeah, yeah

30:28.480 --> 30:28.760
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

30:29.401 --> 30:31.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's focus a little back on usher.

30:32.663 --> 30:37.926
[SPEAKER_01]: So usher Raymond the fourth October 14th 1978.

30:37.946 --> 30:41.388
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's two years younger than we are.

30:42.248 --> 30:43.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Like two years in some change.

30:44.110 --> 30:45.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:45.210 --> 30:52.435
[SPEAKER_01]: He is about to celebrate his 48th birthday here in happy early birthday usher.

30:52.975 --> 31:03.601
[SPEAKER_01]: So Dallas, Texas, but grew up in Chattanooga, Tennessee, and his mom, Janeta Patton, put him in church choir at a young age.

31:04.821 --> 31:16.488
[SPEAKER_01]: When the family relocated to Atlanta, she pulled at that point, 12-year-old usher out of a local R&B group called New Beginnings, and you will love you.

31:16.868 --> 31:17.708
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to tell you,

31:25.135 --> 31:52.048
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... and she pulls them out because she believes that he can be commissal artist so uh... usher meets bobby browns bodyguard a j-a-l-exander add-in-at-lanet talent show al-exander gets him a spot on star search now again this is internet research so not that he wasn't star search not that i could factually check if a j-a-l-exander had that kind of

31:53.047 --> 32:09.335
[SPEAKER_01]: Great, but Brian's read L.A. face exec spotted him and set up an audition with L.A. and usher sang boys to men's end of the road in that audition and L.A. signed him on the spot.

32:11.208 --> 32:17.912
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the self-titled debut album that we talked about in August of 1994 when he was just 15, you know, singing slightly more mature kind of material for his young age.

32:17.932 --> 32:20.954
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there was a voice changing, you know, maybe a little bit of a Bobby Brady scenario.

32:20.994 --> 32:35.202
[SPEAKER_01]: Go on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out on out

32:35.402 --> 32:43.792
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it Bobby or Peter who had the who had the voice I don't remember one of the Brady Bunch that's that's a a deep cut for some of y'all younger folks Look at it.

32:44.593 --> 32:53.563
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Brady Bunch They had a singing group with with all the kids and What I can't remember was may have been Peter.

32:53.603 --> 32:54.183
[SPEAKER_01]: I said Bobby.

32:54.203 --> 32:55.325
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was Peter Brady

32:55.805 --> 32:56.145
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

32:56.305 --> 33:01.667
[SPEAKER_01]: He was supposed to sing his part and his voice was changing.

33:01.787 --> 33:03.647
[SPEAKER_01]: So he could not sing his part.

33:03.667 --> 33:04.908
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a whole episode about it.

33:05.548 --> 33:06.368
[SPEAKER_00]: It is Peter Brady.

33:06.668 --> 33:08.449
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

33:08.469 --> 33:18.691
[SPEAKER_01]: So read didn't cut him from the label, but it sounds like there may have been some thoughts about it after that first album.

33:25.367 --> 33:42.464
[SPEAKER_01]: to live and work inside puff daddy's bad boy camp now what we know about puff daddy usher is like 15 16 years old and you are sending this man to live with

33:50.642 --> 33:54.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this Ellie reads you know best decision here?

33:55.287 --> 33:59.871
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, let's There's so much to untangle there.

34:00.191 --> 34:14.004
[SPEAKER_00]: What's he at 15 years old that has lived I mean Hey, I'm sure he saw some shit because he's been asked about it and he's kind of like Said that he saw some shit with that actually saying what specifically the shit was

34:16.242 --> 34:23.766
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and also in retrospect, LA read has certainly proven himself to be problematic in quite a few ways.

34:23.806 --> 34:28.469
[SPEAKER_00]: He's settled a couple of essay lawsuits himself.

34:30.030 --> 34:33.352
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, LA was getting down with the BS as well.

34:36.188 --> 34:47.351
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and you know, I think it speaks to a lot of things, again, I'm so I'm sure if you gave us your like truth serum and was like, what did you see during those years?

34:47.391 --> 34:49.772
[SPEAKER_00]: He would say some outrageous wild stuff.

34:51.972 --> 35:01.555
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, and, you know, there's been a room was about usher, you can problematic stuff, you know, over the years.

35:06.102 --> 35:09.163
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, patterns have repeated over the course of time.

35:10.603 --> 35:16.544
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, here's the part the time frame that I don't have a lot of information on.

35:16.584 --> 35:19.585
[SPEAKER_01]: So first album doesn't hit.

35:20.205 --> 35:22.286
[SPEAKER_01]: He's goes to to puff daddy camp.

35:22.826 --> 35:26.727
[SPEAKER_01]: But then when he comes out, he's actually working with your main new pre.

35:27.287 --> 35:28.067
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think

35:28.807 --> 35:34.790
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Puff Daddy camp would have been for the first album because like that Puffy is on the first album and so it's faith.

35:35.250 --> 35:38.492
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think faith wrote a lot of the songs on the first album and sings background.

35:38.532 --> 35:40.493
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think they really sent it.

35:40.553 --> 35:44.555
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he went to Puffy camp like before the first album came out.

35:44.595 --> 35:44.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

35:44.855 --> 35:46.896
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't maybe write it around the time the first album came out.

35:47.036 --> 35:47.376
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

35:47.477 --> 35:48.457
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, 1997,

35:50.618 --> 35:55.643
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so this is now three years later, uh, my way drops.

35:55.923 --> 36:13.159
[SPEAKER_01]: Germain, you pre, um, you make me want to is giant, uh, nice and slow, uh, is his first US number one in January of 98, and my way goes seven times platinum.

36:13.199 --> 36:15.601
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you remember about the release of that album?

36:17.242 --> 36:29.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you make B1a was huge, uh, first of all, and only the reason it didn't go to number one is because Elton John had put out that princess Diana tribute song at the same time.

36:30.133 --> 36:40.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you, like, people were just going crazy for you make me want to, and all I remember is, you know, you want to play the album in the store, like us here's a big deal, and

36:41.363 --> 36:52.028
[SPEAKER_00]: The second song on the album has Little Kim Rappin and Little Kim is saying Little Kim things we were like, oh, we can't play this record in this story.

36:52.909 --> 36:57.551
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, all this considered like my way, I don't think is a great record.

36:57.571 --> 36:58.692
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a good record.

36:59.892 --> 37:00.533
[SPEAKER_00]: It's super short.

37:00.553 --> 37:01.033
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only like,

37:02.495 --> 37:05.757
[SPEAKER_00]: eight or nine songs, and you make me want to appear at the beginning and the end.

37:06.138 --> 37:08.039
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the first song and the last song?

37:08.079 --> 37:08.419
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

37:08.980 --> 37:09.320
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

37:09.760 --> 37:13.043
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I'm not really sure what the thought process was behind that.

37:14.484 --> 37:17.826
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, it's a perfectly fine record.

37:19.356 --> 37:39.955
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in 2001, 8701 drops and we'll talk about kind of the history behind that album because that album was also bootlegged all to hell before it was even out and he just decided to redo a lot of it most of it from scratch.

37:40.015 --> 37:40.235
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

37:41.417 --> 37:59.379
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... you remind me you got a bad both top the hot one hundred uh... earned a missed first two grammys for best male arm be vocal performance and i guess you know we had we do have to mention this because it was such a big part of the confessions like

38:00.440 --> 38:13.946
[SPEAKER_01]: marketing, I guess, but his relationship with chili from TLC, which is wild and hindsight to me now not now there was always the age difference in in their relationship, which is right that's their business.

38:14.606 --> 38:28.312
[SPEAKER_01]: But chili seemed to be such a Bible-focused human, let's say, and I don't imagine that usher was necessarily going to church every Sunday.

38:29.613 --> 38:38.781
[SPEAKER_01]: That point in his life, maybe he is now, but like that he was a young dude who was just wild and out like that relationship was always interested me in that perspective.

38:39.822 --> 38:47.109
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can Lord knows you can wild out as hard as possible and still go to church on Sunday.

38:47.149 --> 38:50.272
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times the greatest singer, the greatest saints are the greatest sinners.

38:51.815 --> 38:55.577
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, you know, those are not mutually exclusive ideas.

38:56.338 --> 38:58.239
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, it's an interesting thing.

38:58.539 --> 39:11.065
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I think maybe the most interesting thing about that relationship beyond the age difference, which was much bigger than then it would be now.

39:11.545 --> 39:16.588
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'd be like, oh, they're the same age back then and it was like, he's 2021 and she's damn near 30.

39:17.549 --> 39:19.990
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think,

39:20.951 --> 39:41.358
[SPEAKER_00]: you know the way that that turned into a marketing strategy like it was it was a relationship that turned into like you know publicity almost for like the right chili should have got a payout for that confession though I mean I had to you know at the end of the day

39:42.843 --> 39:52.049
[SPEAKER_00]: when it was all over, like usher was ten times bigger than, you know, I mean, TLC was pretty much over at that point because left I had already passed away.

39:52.249 --> 39:52.429
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

39:52.850 --> 39:56.352
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, I mean, I hope she got a kickback or something.

39:56.492 --> 39:56.732
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

39:57.553 --> 39:57.993
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

39:58.013 --> 40:00.355
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to focus on confessions here in a second.

40:00.395 --> 40:03.997
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of his discography, but I wanted to go through a little bit more of the usher timeline.

40:04.718 --> 40:04.938
[SPEAKER_01]: So,

40:06.799 --> 40:19.108
[SPEAKER_01]: The split between the two happens in 2004, the album Confessions is released on March 23rd of 2004 just a giant success.

40:19.889 --> 40:22.911
[SPEAKER_01]: The truth tour happens later that summer.

40:24.052 --> 40:35.797
[SPEAKER_01]: Usher's first international headlining tour and a then somewhat unknown as especially as a rapper Kanye West is his opening act.

40:36.452 --> 40:36.832
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

40:37.973 --> 40:40.173
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, cause I'm not an usher tour, I had to let it burn.

40:40.193 --> 40:45.935
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a, that's a very, I like that line.

40:46.635 --> 41:02.941
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, December of 07, he marries, uh, Tamika Foster, his stylist, and he got a lot of a flag for that one too from what I remember, because his moms was like not down with that relationship, I think.

41:03.729 --> 41:11.957
[SPEAKER_01]: If I remember correctly, to make a foster was also significantly older, right, right, um, and then

41:13.797 --> 41:39.778
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... like six months later here i stand comes out which is his follow up reflecting on marriage and fatherhood uh... then uh... in two thousand nine they get divorced two thousand and ten raven versus raimant is released named for the divorce uh... so usher's using his personal life for marketing in many different please not not just confessions

41:40.819 --> 41:44.723
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then in February of 2024 we're fast forwarding quite a bit.

41:45.163 --> 41:51.690
[SPEAKER_01]: He headlines the Super Bowl halftime show, um, the same week that coming home drops.

41:52.391 --> 41:57.517
[SPEAKER_01]: So, usher, uh, I would say, somebody,

41:59.036 --> 42:17.551
[SPEAKER_01]: who probably doesn't, at least in the scope of, like, if we just focus on R&B, I think usher gets his props a big time, but if you focus on the scope of music in whole, I think Confessions is probably underrated for impact, but at the same time, his follow-ups to Confession have been,

42:18.597 --> 42:20.557
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, pretty open mid.

42:20.938 --> 42:22.058
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're mid.

42:22.758 --> 42:26.139
[SPEAKER_01]: And and like that will be part of my hot take when we get there.

42:26.819 --> 42:27.099
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

42:27.379 --> 42:27.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

42:28.439 --> 42:29.400
[SPEAKER_01]: So quickly.

42:30.140 --> 42:35.861
[SPEAKER_01]: So the self debut album, usher we talked about that sells about 500,000 copies.

42:37.041 --> 42:41.422
[SPEAKER_01]: My way sells about 8 million worldwide.

42:49.004 --> 43:00.329
[SPEAKER_01]: All about you, and I think he specifically uses the word you in a lot of his songs so that he can use the letter you, which he stands for his name.

43:01.149 --> 43:02.290
[SPEAKER_01]: His name starts with you.

43:02.870 --> 43:05.451
[SPEAKER_01]: So like all over this album is just the letter you.

43:07.072 --> 43:14.880
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was originally supposed to come out in October, actually Halloween of 2000 until a bunch of tracks.

43:14.920 --> 43:17.202
[SPEAKER_01]: And the only one I remember is Papia Colour.

43:17.382 --> 43:18.023
[SPEAKER_01]: Papia Colour.

43:18.303 --> 43:19.444
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

43:19.625 --> 43:22.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Multiple tracks leaked on Napster.

43:23.328 --> 43:24.509
[SPEAKER_01]: talk about a throwback.

43:24.729 --> 43:25.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Naps.

43:26.210 --> 43:26.870
[SPEAKER_01]: That march.

43:27.190 --> 43:28.891
[SPEAKER_01]: So months ahead of schedule.

43:28.911 --> 43:31.353
[SPEAKER_01]: So the sobsoes come out in October.

43:32.173 --> 43:35.636
[SPEAKER_01]: And those tracks leak in March.

43:35.896 --> 43:37.036
[SPEAKER_01]: That is insane.

43:38.097 --> 43:38.237
[SPEAKER_01]: Who?

43:38.297 --> 43:39.298
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder who did it?

43:39.378 --> 43:40.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, did it?

43:40.258 --> 43:41.299
[SPEAKER_01]: I never find out who did it.

43:42.179 --> 43:45.421
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but uh, internet security is a real thing folks.

43:45.722 --> 43:46.062
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus.

43:47.203 --> 43:54.386
[SPEAKER_01]: so rather than releasing what would become a bootleg album bootleg album usher pulls it entirely.

43:54.406 --> 44:02.730
[SPEAKER_01]: And he goes back into the studio with a new team including Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.

44:04.329 --> 44:16.232
[SPEAKER_01]: and the album actually slips release date a couple more times before finally coming out August 7, 2001 and I remember this because it just had become a joke by that point.

44:16.292 --> 44:18.533
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, dude, when are you releasing this thing?

44:19.153 --> 44:19.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

44:19.633 --> 44:24.494
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess in the end, he had the right strategy because it wasn't the right strategy.

44:24.514 --> 44:24.814
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

44:25.575 --> 44:26.215
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I,

44:28.822 --> 44:39.489
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the album got bootlegged, but I think that there were some, also some imaging problems that caused the record company to kind of pull the album back.

44:39.770 --> 44:46.674
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was, in fact, that pop your color, pop your color didn't really like blow up the way that they wanted it to blow up.

44:46.914 --> 44:48.816
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of became a little bit of like a,

44:49.971 --> 44:57.136
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I kind of want to find this just because it was one of the reasons why the album got booted.

44:57.156 --> 45:00.478
[SPEAKER_01]: Like more than it became like this really famous on your song.

45:01.238 --> 45:01.458
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

45:01.899 --> 45:02.159
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

45:02.319 --> 45:13.426
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so I think I think the bootlegging of leaking of it played a part, but I also think that, you know, they were like, oh, this this record.

45:14.674 --> 45:25.856
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel like it's going to blow the way we wanted to blow, so let's take a step back and use all of the excuses we have at hand and kind of like retool things a little bit and you're right, it did turn out to be a really good decision.

45:26.827 --> 45:42.512
[SPEAKER_01]: So the album title 8701 is a callback to a 1987 when he first sang publicly and the year 2001 the album's release year, but also it came out on 877 2001 yeah pretty good that that was smart.

45:48.073 --> 45:49.334
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll talk about confessions here.

45:49.675 --> 45:57.681
[SPEAKER_01]: Here I stand, sells about six million worldwide, love and love in this club.

45:57.701 --> 46:02.425
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that in our top five podcast.

46:03.625 --> 46:05.226
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, sure.

46:05.286 --> 46:13.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Raymond versus Raymond is three times platinum in the U.S. OMG is is number one single.

46:13.148 --> 46:15.709
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about that one as well.

46:16.549 --> 46:19.210
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking for myself is 2012.

46:21.411 --> 46:21.911
[SPEAKER_01]: Scream.

46:22.371 --> 46:27.473
[SPEAKER_01]: I went back to this album and I can't remember liking really any of the songs on that album.

46:28.953 --> 46:43.284
[SPEAKER_01]: And then hard to love September 26th, teen, um, and then he does this side collabo mixtape album with Zatoven in 2018.

46:43.724 --> 46:55.794
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't really remember listening to it back then, um, but listening to it recently, it's like, it's kind of a nice listen, but it's not it's not meant to do what usher albums are meant to do necessarily.

46:57.034 --> 46:58.516
[SPEAKER_01]: And then coming home in 2024.

46:58.876 --> 47:11.432
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is where I'm like, oh, an usher album came out when and years before I was like listening on first day, you know, and that thing drops and I'm listening.

47:11.452 --> 47:14.657
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, let's get back to Confessions.

47:15.963 --> 47:43.280
[SPEAKER_01]: Originally, suppose he was going to come out in November of the year before, so this one also got pushed back six months or so, five, five and a half months, Usher first turned in 40 songs to LA read who felt the batch wasn't there yet, sending Usher back into the studio for what he called the hardest part requiring him to dig for material rather than coast on what

47:45.121 --> 47:54.766
[SPEAKER_01]: that extra round of sessions produced, yeah, the, one of the most giant songs of the 2000s and red light.

47:55.887 --> 48:04.792
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Confessions concept, the infidelity and secrecy in the hidden child piece was a big time marketing for this album.

48:07.173 --> 48:31.510
[SPEAKER_01]: We all kind of assumed that it was about him and then he was being a little literal But he wasn't necessarily about him and I know Germaine Dupri kind of takes credit for a lot of these stories Being really about his life and not usher's life So here's where I'm a little curious slash confused because when confessions came out Germaine was dating Janet right

48:32.739 --> 48:36.481
[SPEAKER_00]: So who is this out of the way?

48:36.501 --> 48:41.144
[SPEAKER_01]: So Janet and Chilly get kickbacks from this album.

48:41.284 --> 48:49.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Seriously, we've already said, you're made to pre-law of the dumbest humans as far as the the ladies are concerned.

48:51.709 --> 48:59.654
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe, and I don't know this, but maybe the Don Chee Chee has lots of options.

49:02.964 --> 49:08.265
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he had lots of options, didn't necessarily mean he had to use all of those options.

49:09.447 --> 49:16.493
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you got Janet Jackson at home and like if you masturbate, like do something if you can be with Janet.

49:16.673 --> 49:19.395
[SPEAKER_00]: You know.

49:19.495 --> 49:24.099
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're main to pre and Brian Michael Cox are the.

49:26.100 --> 49:29.743
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of some of the producers here, a little John.

49:30.564 --> 49:31.885
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember the little John days?

49:32.666 --> 49:34.027
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I remember the little John days.

49:34.187 --> 49:36.229
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the little John doing these days?

49:37.110 --> 49:39.013
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he's I think he just put a book out.

49:39.453 --> 49:46.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, I think he's been some been through some tragedy recently But I think he's still like on the road.

49:47.045 --> 49:49.248
[SPEAKER_00]: I think more is like a DJ than anything else

49:50.903 --> 49:56.626
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, Jimmy Jamm and Terry, like I said, just blaze, rich hair, just blaze and a robin thing.

49:57.106 --> 50:00.767
[SPEAKER_01]: Just blaze is didn't just blaze produce throwback.

50:01.448 --> 50:01.868
[SPEAKER_01]: He did.

50:02.548 --> 50:05.509
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of like the coolest song in the album I think.

50:06.130 --> 50:09.911
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're doing a top five so we can, we can go back to throwback later.

50:10.011 --> 50:10.312
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

50:11.292 --> 50:11.512
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:12.152 --> 50:12.733
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right.

50:12.973 --> 50:17.415
[SPEAKER_01]: So, some of the, some of the studio

50:22.188 --> 50:24.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost, but almost wasn't in usure track.

50:25.312 --> 50:29.515
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was originally cut during a mystical session.

50:29.535 --> 50:45.644
[SPEAKER_01]: You remember, mystical, you know, I remember, mystical, PD Pablo had already recorded mixed and pressed freaky leak to the exact same backing track.

50:46.224 --> 50:51.828
[SPEAKER_01]: And then L-R-O-C, who's the keyboard artist,

50:53.989 --> 51:06.062
[SPEAKER_01]: recalled hearing it on the radio and thinking what the hell this is usher song and and so they had to build an entirely new beat from scratch.

51:06.102 --> 51:10.587
[SPEAKER_01]: So what became what became freaky leak was originally supposed to be yeah.

51:10.827 --> 51:11.929
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, interesting.

51:12.429 --> 51:21.051
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, yes, signature hook was recorded in a scramble over two days in Miami and one night at outcasts, stankonia studios.

51:21.251 --> 51:25.751
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is from the Red Bull music academy daily.

51:25.771 --> 51:36.553
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that might have been, I wonder if that was, uh, because I've seen jam and Lewis do, like, sit down, that were recorded for that music.

51:36.613 --> 51:39.014
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe a little John did one.

51:39.234 --> 51:39.434
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:40.575 --> 51:52.880
[SPEAKER_01]: So burn was born from a single phrase in a conversation, Germaine Dupree and Brian Michael Cox were talking through a relationship where Germaine supposedly said, yo, you got to let that burn.

51:53.660 --> 51:57.921
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a song right there, and they wrote the track on the spot.

51:59.042 --> 52:01.583
[SPEAKER_01]: It was going to be the first single, but then it got bumped once.

52:01.863 --> 52:03.984
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, started generating some buzz.

52:05.844 --> 52:09.906
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another song that will come up in our rock with its stop with it.

52:10.247 --> 52:17.430
[SPEAKER_01]: My boo was almost thrown out entirely and almost had a different female vocalist.

52:18.731 --> 52:26.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Usher supposedly did not like the track and Beyonce was supposed to be the original female artist.

52:26.876 --> 52:36.829
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but she was on tour, which opened the door for Alicia Keys, and I think the playfulness with usher in Alicia Keys probably works a little better than Beyonce.

52:37.580 --> 52:38.220
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so too.

52:38.280 --> 52:40.941
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also worth mentioning that Confessions was released twice.

52:41.361 --> 52:41.841
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

52:42.381 --> 52:46.522
[SPEAKER_00]: My boo was not on the original version of Confessions.

52:47.182 --> 52:53.463
[SPEAKER_00]: They put out a deluxe edition maybe like six to seven months after the original version, which was like four extra tracks.

52:53.903 --> 53:03.645
[SPEAKER_00]: And my boo was like the, you know, the one of the extra tracks on the deluxe and, you know, that because usher was so huge and Alicia was so huge that blew them up.

53:04.605 --> 53:08.126
[SPEAKER_01]: So back to the germane duprie saying this was my life.

53:08.206 --> 53:16.608
[SPEAKER_01]: So confessions part two, which is where the having a baby with another woman and then comes out.

53:16.648 --> 53:19.609
[SPEAKER_01]: He said it's lifted directly from his life.

53:19.709 --> 53:23.370
[SPEAKER_01]: Written in about 30 minutes once usher said he wanted a part two

53:31.517 --> 53:36.061
[SPEAKER_01]: was the entire marketing strategy behind the confessions concept.

53:36.121 --> 53:47.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, they were they were really smart about that even though yeah, I'm sure I hope they gave the heads up to Chile because I'm sure she had to deal with a lot of shit coming from this album.

53:48.151 --> 53:49.072
[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine so.

53:50.680 --> 54:12.226
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so, you know, we don't have to go through the list of songs here, but like Mike said special edition came out in October of 2004 with my boo, which was the Alicia Keys song, Red Light and seduction plus extended remix versions of the of many of the tracks.

54:13.187 --> 54:13.707
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember

54:15.217 --> 54:33.457
[SPEAKER_01]: hearing this album the first time and obviously being caught up in in the you know what is this about who's he talking about that was definitely part of it but I also thought like there are some tracks on this album that maybe you know aren't his most popular tracks

54:34.570 --> 54:43.072
[SPEAKER_01]: that that's still play very well like I don't know if I like this album better or 8701 I think this album is more complete.

54:43.212 --> 55:02.337
[SPEAKER_01]: I may like the singles on 8701 better but this is this album is really where by hooker by crook they really put it together and it was it was like a complete and total package like two times like like said it came out twice but I feel like this is this is probably his most

55:04.457 --> 55:18.780
[SPEAKER_00]: I would agree yeah, I mean even the songs like I'm looking at my top five and I think they're all singles but you know I think about like truth hurts, which I think is a really good song.

55:18.820 --> 55:23.161
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes And he he's showing his vocal prowess on that song.

55:23.181 --> 55:25.442
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a really nice vocal song for him

55:26.238 --> 55:44.307
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, take your hand, which is a rich Harrison song like there's a few songs on that album that we're not released to singles that I think are really, really good and Confessions to me is the one usher album we're like the singles are strong and the entire rest of the album is strong to me.

55:45.187 --> 55:50.450
[SPEAKER_01]: Stevie Wonder played the harmonica on Confessions part one, which was a UK bonus track.

55:50.570 --> 55:51.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that true?

55:53.151 --> 55:54.552
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's true or not.

55:56.259 --> 56:15.315
[SPEAKER_00]: It's who else plays a harmonica could have been steve could have been hewley, I mean, there are, you know, there are definitely multiple harmonica players out there, um, who is the other guy from, uh, from that, what's the band?

56:17.426 --> 56:33.401
[SPEAKER_00]: trap travel what's it what's the guy the guy's traveler no well yeah I forget that yeah I think that's who we're talking about in the traveler that's funny yeah I don't know I mean I'm looking because confessions confessions was on the original album

56:34.732 --> 56:38.435
[SPEAKER_00]: Confessions was like an interlude and then it went into Confessions part two.

56:38.615 --> 56:38.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

56:39.035 --> 56:44.359
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking at it on Apple music now and Confessions is a whole last song like it's one and a half minutes long.

56:45.260 --> 56:54.186
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I think they like, you know, they kind of retrofit it, um, and I'm curious to hear what that sounds like.

56:54.246 --> 57:02.953
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, usher or Stevie on an usher album would have been a big deal then and, you know, would be a big deal now and I feel like I would have known about that.

57:04.200 --> 57:12.446
[SPEAKER_01]: could usher as a fort near 48-year-old man, could he redo the concept?

57:17.509 --> 57:19.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, nah, I guess so.

57:19.690 --> 57:23.193
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it would be weird now because I think there would be

57:25.908 --> 57:28.229
[SPEAKER_00]: In age disparity in the opposite direction.

57:28.749 --> 57:41.574
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess that would be like the big deal because, you know, 48 year old women are not having babies and mustard Janet Jackson, you know, you know, what made me have to be about a baby, but it could be sort of like.

57:43.330 --> 57:55.674
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some semi false truths about relationships or what, but just like recreate the idea of like, you know, the marketing genius that was the first one.

57:56.454 --> 58:00.776
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would love to have usher did like a grown folks relationships kind of concept album.

58:00.876 --> 58:02.136
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too.

58:02.376 --> 58:04.777
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a sort of missing from his career.

58:05.518 --> 58:06.618
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's lived.

58:07.725 --> 58:10.367
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's a full on, like he's not even just an adult.

58:10.387 --> 58:11.648
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a middle aged man.

58:12.468 --> 58:16.771
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, was it Chris Rock talking about being an old man at the club?

58:18.592 --> 58:20.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Usher is starting to give off.

58:20.554 --> 58:23.356
[SPEAKER_00]: Not starting to, but it's giving off old man at the club vibes.

58:23.636 --> 58:24.957
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, bro, you damn near 50.

58:25.217 --> 58:26.818
[SPEAKER_00]: Once the last time you were in the night club.

58:30.932 --> 58:37.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Like as a person, you know, paying a cover and going to hang out.

58:38.814 --> 58:40.794
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's rough.

58:40.974 --> 58:43.234
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it might have been in my 30s.

58:43.314 --> 58:45.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was trying to remember too.

58:45.615 --> 58:53.736
[SPEAKER_01]: I had probably late 30s for me, but there may have been a time where I was going with some younger people and just just to hang out, and that's what they wanted to do.

58:53.756 --> 58:56.817
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't have a young crew at work that I, that I, that I,

58:57.246 --> 59:08.730
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, most of my co-workers younger and if there's like a birthday party or a reception or something like that, like, we'll go to a bar, but, you know, also young people don't club like that anymore.

59:08.770 --> 59:13.032
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it feels like it feels like it's more when we were younger.

59:13.952 --> 59:17.274
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when you went to a club, you were doing one of two things.

59:17.674 --> 59:21.835
[SPEAKER_00]: If not both of those two things, you were either going to dance or you're going to like hook up.

59:21.975 --> 59:23.636
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you're going to say and going to Mac.

59:24.698 --> 59:44.971
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, same thing like you're going to you're going to get numbers you're going to like whatever and you know, apparently kids don't dance anymore, which is sad unless they're on TikTok, you know, and people don't like, because so everything is so social media centric people don't really feel they need to go out and like meet people anymore.

59:46.692 --> 59:50.595
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think clubbing the way we experienced it doesn't exist.

59:51.590 --> 01:00:03.516
[SPEAKER_01]: I just experienced my stepdaughter who is in the sixth grade going to her first school dance, but I don't even think they call it a dance anymore.

01:00:03.556 --> 01:00:08.258
[SPEAKER_01]: They call it like, uh, I don't even know what they call it.

01:00:08.278 --> 01:00:11.619
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think like maybe school dance is a little intimidating.

01:00:11.659 --> 01:00:15.461
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, uh, some sort of like little gathering or whatever.

01:00:16.181 --> 01:00:19.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So she was saying that,

01:00:20.898 --> 01:00:28.718
[SPEAKER_01]: So they play the music and all the boys are obviously too embarrassed trying to pretend like they're too cool.

01:00:29.485 --> 01:00:56.203
[SPEAKER_01]: So she and her friends kind of like go like okay, like we need to go out there and show people that, you know, we're not afraid to get out there and do some good but it wasn't a dance move that got them on the dance floor it was a what did she say oh one of her friends who is she cheerleads with did a walk did a a handstand and walked on her hands into the middle of the dance

01:00:57.483 --> 01:01:01.784
[SPEAKER_00]: And then bust it into the worm and that kind of got the got the night going.

01:01:02.304 --> 01:01:12.166
[SPEAKER_01]: So So like I don't know you remember the movie hitch where we'll smith We'll see it then Kevin James.

01:01:12.206 --> 01:01:21.148
[SPEAKER_01]: He just Kevin James had a dance and he's like this is where you want to stay Like you just stay right here right in this little pocket and Kevin James is doing all this wild stuff

01:01:22.788 --> 01:01:28.612
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think people can, or people are taught to even know how to do that anymore.

01:01:28.672 --> 01:01:32.835
[SPEAKER_01]: So it just feels awkward on top of awkward on top of awkward.

01:01:32.855 --> 01:01:34.596
[SPEAKER_01]: Like no one gives those lessons.

01:01:35.156 --> 01:01:42.842
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we need like a 2026 version of hitch to kind of like teach these kids how to interact in spaces like this.

01:01:43.642 --> 01:01:46.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, who the 2026 will Smith be?

01:01:46.024 --> 01:01:49.606
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get, let's get Michael B. Jordan to do a remake of hitch.

01:01:53.105 --> 01:01:53.447
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn.

01:01:53.909 --> 01:01:54.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:01:56.221 --> 01:01:58.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's that who's the kid in the kid?

01:01:58.481 --> 01:02:01.302
[SPEAKER_01]: He either have no idea who this dude, this dude's age.

01:02:01.362 --> 01:02:02.522
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy in lanterns.

01:02:02.762 --> 01:02:03.782
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen lanterns?

01:02:04.082 --> 01:02:05.603
[SPEAKER_00]: What's lying to know what lanterns is?

01:02:05.763 --> 01:02:12.504
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a play of the green lantern from it's a DC unit.

01:02:12.524 --> 01:02:13.324
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, from the comic.

01:02:13.344 --> 01:02:13.944
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

01:02:13.964 --> 01:02:17.965
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy Aaron Pierre, who's kind of like a cool dude.

01:02:18.105 --> 01:02:18.565
[SPEAKER_01]: He's 32.

01:02:18.625 --> 01:02:20.025
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not bad.

01:02:20.045 --> 01:02:21.766
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's probably around the same age.

01:02:21.806 --> 01:02:23.266
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Smith was when Hitch came out.

01:02:23.526 --> 01:02:35.115
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if he's as like universal, he doesn't have that universal will smith appeal yet and really didn't he did, but he maybe a good look, but yeah, like so I don't know like nightclubs.

01:02:37.137 --> 01:02:49.867
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I feel like when I was younger bars were for older people in nightclubs were for younger people and then when I got older, I was like.

01:02:51.313 --> 01:03:14.469
[SPEAKER_01]: bars are it man like why did I think like I had to go to a nightclub like bars are so much cooler than me the audit the oddness of of a nightclub but I don't know you you can have a conversation in a bar that you can't really have in a nightclub nightclub this music pumping people are going in groups like it's loud you know you're trying to talk to somebody

01:03:18.029 --> 01:03:20.431
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I'm like, I don't know, now I have the stupid Jamie Foxle on.

01:03:20.451 --> 01:03:22.873
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, my head, she done dance, like 90 to 100 songs.

01:03:24.234 --> 01:03:25.535
[SPEAKER_00]: Drinking water because she thirsty.

01:03:27.257 --> 01:03:28.057
[SPEAKER_00]: The air.

01:03:29.598 --> 01:03:30.739
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember.

01:03:30.759 --> 01:03:38.125
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I remember there were so many moments where I was like, I would rather be somewhere else talking to this person.

01:03:38.746 --> 01:03:42.689
[SPEAKER_01]: Then this nightclub that's blasting me because you can't even hear each other.

01:03:42.709 --> 01:03:43.610
[SPEAKER_01]: You, right.

01:03:43.830 --> 01:03:46.212
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so when you do kind of make that connection,

01:03:47.853 --> 01:03:50.074
[SPEAKER_01]: You will kind of want to have the side conversation.

01:03:50.094 --> 01:03:51.755
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, I kind of want to get to know this person.

01:03:51.795 --> 01:03:58.399
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't always happen at a nightclub, because it's always about like just keeping things going.

01:03:58.860 --> 01:04:01.221
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever been, like way off, Tanger?

01:04:01.241 --> 01:04:05.624
[SPEAKER_01]: But have you ever been to like one of those ritsy like Las Vegas nightclubs?

01:04:06.084 --> 01:04:08.285
[SPEAKER_01]: That might have been the last time I was at a nightclub.

01:04:08.305 --> 01:04:10.447
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that I think about it, I have not.

01:04:11.307 --> 01:04:14.209
[SPEAKER_00]: So my co-workers like one of those

01:04:16.214 --> 01:04:25.716
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been to, I've definitely been to many of those, but not, but then like Vegas, you know, the nightclipsing in Vegas just takes it to like a different level.

01:04:25.736 --> 01:04:28.757
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the expectations are, are just way different.

01:04:29.297 --> 01:04:34.058
[SPEAKER_01]: And my coworker got married in Vegas and the night before her wedding.

01:04:34.838 --> 01:04:39.059
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of us went to like this, you know, where you got to like stand in line.

01:04:39.079 --> 01:04:45.501
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of have to like bring women who are attractive or you're not getting into that kind of thing.

01:04:46.701 --> 01:04:49.182
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would have probably been the last time I was at a nightclub.

01:04:49.262 --> 01:04:55.365
[SPEAKER_01]: I was probably Right around 40 if I think about it now.

01:04:55.785 --> 01:04:56.986
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I can't do it now.

01:04:57.026 --> 01:05:08.151
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been since then But yeah, like that that scene is is kind of intense because in Vegas is not a place where people are looking to Meet people for forever.

01:05:08.211 --> 01:05:09.991
[SPEAKER_01]: They're looking to me longer than one night.

01:05:10.031 --> 01:05:12.352
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, meet people for, you know, a couple hours, and then

01:05:17.022 --> 01:05:24.527
[SPEAKER_01]: This is part of what makes 50 for 50 because we're we have all of this experience behind this and we can tell us all about the tangents maybe.

01:05:24.728 --> 01:05:24.968
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:05:25.748 --> 01:05:30.873
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so songwriter and I don't know how this is truthful.

01:05:31.593 --> 01:05:39.575
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a bad girl was lifted from his song Club Girl and he won a $44 million loss.

01:05:39.595 --> 01:05:47.537
[SPEAKER_01]: So how can you get $44 million from a song on this album that from what I remember was not a single?

01:05:48.157 --> 01:05:49.037
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's false.

01:05:49.537 --> 01:05:49.817
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:05:50.117 --> 01:05:50.917
[SPEAKER_00]: That's 100% false.

01:05:51.337 --> 01:05:52.018
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, good.

01:05:52.458 --> 01:05:53.878
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not fall for that one.

01:05:53.998 --> 01:05:54.678
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not falling for that.

01:05:54.698 --> 01:05:56.098
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not falling for that, but in the title song.

01:05:56.118 --> 01:05:58.039
[SPEAKER_00]: That's been an anti-alpar I thought I was about to say.

01:05:59.732 --> 01:06:19.116
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, uh, supposedly, now maybe this gets into our dream collaboration, uh, scenario here, but supposedly, usher, Michael Jackson, and T-Pane, almost had an actual collaboration in the late 2000s.

01:06:19.476 --> 01:06:20.937
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you hear about this?

01:06:21.937 --> 01:06:26.438
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I don't want to hear, I don't want to hear T-Pane on an usher in Michael Jackson record.

01:06:28.585 --> 01:06:32.347
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if T-Pane was really the bridge and we weren't going to get it otherwise.

01:06:33.328 --> 01:06:35.289
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this was the late 2000s.

01:06:36.370 --> 01:06:36.610
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:06:37.211 --> 01:06:39.652
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess if it had to have come to that.

01:06:41.313 --> 01:06:41.693
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:06:41.894 --> 01:06:44.735
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's the rumored story.

01:06:45.336 --> 01:06:46.216
[SPEAKER_01]: I might have.

01:06:46.296 --> 01:06:48.138
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll just do our dream collaborator here.

01:06:48.378 --> 01:06:48.578
[SPEAKER_01]: So.

01:06:50.125 --> 01:07:06.508
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... obviously mj is a giant influence and remember the usher performance on that that michael jackson special year the thirty-eighth anniversary special year uh... you know he's trying to show up my kithin and that and that performance what do you think

01:07:07.949 --> 01:07:09.030
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really sure.

01:07:10.311 --> 01:07:18.958
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fun to watch because I think Mike kind of took it like This boy trying to show me up like I kind of come a little stronger.

01:07:18.978 --> 01:07:19.939
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:07:20.099 --> 01:07:35.170
[SPEAKER_01]: My knees hurt this young boy is I taught this dude everything he knows because usher went into like a cup I feel like usher had like an idea and he saw Mike and he's like I got to take it further and then Michael's Wait a second here

01:07:36.131 --> 01:07:38.654
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to come out or else people are going to think I'm a punk.

01:07:39.215 --> 01:07:40.656
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, hold on home, eat his mushroom.

01:07:40.936 --> 01:07:42.638
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

01:07:42.658 --> 01:07:44.280
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's why they never collaborated.

01:07:44.300 --> 01:07:46.883
[SPEAKER_01]: And MJ has a memory for stuff like that.

01:07:47.644 --> 01:07:48.044
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.

01:07:48.064 --> 01:07:52.189
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, then this is a tea pain story.

01:07:52.229 --> 01:07:54.011
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's take it for what it's worth.

01:07:54.031 --> 01:07:54.651
[SPEAKER_01]: grain of salt.

01:07:55.312 --> 01:08:03.081
[SPEAKER_01]: T. Payne said he wrote and produced a track, intended to feature himself usher in Michael, at the height of his career.

01:08:03.722 --> 01:08:07.927
[SPEAKER_01]: The collaboration collapsed because of all things over excitement.

01:08:09.120 --> 01:08:19.963
[SPEAKER_01]: The person recording reference vocals leaked the reference track before MJ had signed off and then MJ pulled out entirely.

01:08:20.703 --> 01:08:32.666
[SPEAKER_01]: So T-Pane says the reference singer got too excited and was like, I'm on a song with Michael Jackson and usher in T-Pane and then he leaked it, maybe an MJ heard about it.

01:08:32.686 --> 01:08:33.946
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've never heard this story.

01:08:39.247 --> 01:08:41.629
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it's it sounds like a made up story.

01:08:42.010 --> 01:08:46.794
[SPEAKER_01]: When you can sort of lay blame on this nameless faceless person called reference singer.

01:08:47.434 --> 01:08:49.076
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know what that.

01:08:49.096 --> 01:08:49.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:08:49.636 --> 01:08:50.557
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I buy that.

01:08:51.238 --> 01:08:51.478
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

01:08:51.518 --> 01:09:00.066
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it was not Michael, who would you have liked to see usher record with, who maybe he hasn't collaborated with?

01:09:01.050 --> 01:09:05.932
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the very obvious collaboration for usher would have been Justin Timberland.

01:09:06.032 --> 01:09:07.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, that's number one.

01:09:07.373 --> 01:09:13.075
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, um, yeah, how that didn't happen.

01:09:13.115 --> 01:09:16.357
[SPEAKER_00]: And I actually believe that it was supposed to happen at one point.

01:09:17.838 --> 01:09:30.708
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe around the time, you know, between eight, seven, or one in confessions when Justin had his first album, like I just think that would have been a great collaboration, particularly at that time in their careers, you know.

01:09:30.948 --> 01:09:32.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I think an usher Michael song would have been great.

01:09:34.331 --> 01:09:38.594
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, usher in the roots, I would love to hear usher do a record with a live band.

01:09:39.014 --> 01:09:40.335
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear a live band.

01:09:40.455 --> 01:09:43.518
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear mature lyrics, like him not.

01:09:44.534 --> 01:09:48.238
[SPEAKER_00]: gunning for a hit, no guest rappers, none of that stuff.

01:09:48.278 --> 01:09:51.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Just usher and a band making like grown folks usher.

01:09:52.263 --> 01:09:54.666
[SPEAKER_00]: Usher has a Luther style album in him.

01:09:54.686 --> 01:09:54.846
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.

01:09:54.866 --> 01:09:55.066
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.

01:09:56.468 --> 01:09:58.631
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, or Johnny Gil style album in him.

01:09:59.492 --> 01:10:01.995
[SPEAKER_01]: We're getting to we're getting to my hot take in the second.

01:10:02.235 --> 01:10:03.817
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, here's my question about the roots.

01:10:05.425 --> 01:10:10.887
[SPEAKER_01]: There was an episode of Quest Love Supreme that Usher was on.

01:10:12.327 --> 01:10:16.569
[SPEAKER_01]: Usher was talking about his significant other at that time.

01:10:18.329 --> 01:10:21.710
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I listened to this episode, it was one of the classic versions

01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:29.521
[SPEAKER_00]: Quest love, I think I know where this is going.

01:10:30.562 --> 01:10:31.824
[SPEAKER_01]: Started to date this.

01:10:32.404 --> 01:10:34.966
[SPEAKER_00]: Quest love Quest love did the Mr. Steely your girl thing.

01:10:34.986 --> 01:10:35.487
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, usher.

01:10:38.267 --> 01:10:40.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that person still quest love significant other?

01:10:41.428 --> 01:10:41.908
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.

01:10:41.928 --> 01:10:42.688
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they broke up.

01:10:42.908 --> 01:10:43.188
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:10:43.849 --> 01:10:55.571
[SPEAKER_01]: I just that that is a wild You know for her it is a like a wild mix of folks like Data is like a strategies washboard abs.

01:10:55.711 --> 01:10:56.612
[SPEAKER_00]: Data is a question.

01:10:56.632 --> 01:10:57.472
[SPEAKER_00]: I need some different

01:10:58.432 --> 01:11:26.397
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, that was, but I also know that Quest Love and Usher have a really good relationship, so I cut, that's also the part of it that I wondered about, maybe there was some time, but if I remember correctly, when I had researched it, now again, we're talking about internet and where the gossip kind of rain supreme, right, it had sort of been like, not that long before she got with Quest Love, like after Usher, so there was some curiosity for me there,

01:11:29.370 --> 01:11:34.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so let's go through our our tiers here.

01:11:36.313 --> 01:11:41.916
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are your must listen usher albums after confessions?

01:11:41.956 --> 01:11:44.097
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, the only other must listen usher album is A701.

01:11:45.491 --> 01:11:46.812
[SPEAKER_01]: that would be what I would say to.

01:11:47.673 --> 01:11:47.913
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:11:48.313 --> 01:11:59.422
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think my way is closer to a must listen than it is to an actual mid, but it is probably the next best album for sure.

01:12:00.443 --> 01:12:05.166
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably the next best album, but I would probably slot that into mid.

01:12:05.226 --> 01:12:08.569
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like maybe slightly upper mid, but it's still mid for me.

01:12:09.878 --> 01:12:18.265
[SPEAKER_01]: There are songs on here I stand, Raymond versus Raymond looking for myself, actually not as much looking for myself, but hard to love.

01:12:18.826 --> 01:12:25.051
[SPEAKER_01]: There are songs that I like, and I'll talk about that more in the top five, but yeah, what is your no skip's rating for Confessions?

01:12:25.832 --> 01:12:29.215
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Confessions is like a eight and a half nine, I think so.

01:12:29.495 --> 01:12:30.936
[SPEAKER_01]: I immediately thought eight as well.

01:12:31.677 --> 01:12:31.937
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:12:32.237 --> 01:12:32.818
[SPEAKER_01]: Which version?

01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:45.026
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm the version with the most songs because even like, you know, my booze of fun song, like even the extra songs he put on there are not like BS songs, like their good songs.

01:12:45.146 --> 01:12:45.366
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:12:45.406 --> 01:12:50.689
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I would say no matter which version of Confessions, like probably still all around like the eight and a half range.

01:12:51.950 --> 01:12:57.674
[SPEAKER_01]: And our Grammy Redux, so he wins a best male R&B performance in 2022 for you or

01:13:03.909 --> 01:13:12.317
[SPEAKER_01]: But the 2005 Grammys are the Confession Grammys, and he is successful when's contemporary R&B album.

01:13:12.958 --> 01:13:16.221
[SPEAKER_01]: When's Best R&B performance with Alicia?

01:13:16.822 --> 01:13:20.465
[SPEAKER_01]: When's Best Rap Song collaboration for ya?

01:13:21.426 --> 01:13:30.968
[SPEAKER_01]: nominations for album of the year record of the year and best male army vocal performance in army song he loses those.

01:13:31.528 --> 01:13:41.131
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a category that we've talked about before so I'm just going to bring it up again album of the year for the 47th Grammys here are your nominees

01:13:48.128 --> 01:14:09.425
[SPEAKER_00]: Confessions college drop out and none of those win because Ray Charles and various artists win for genius loves company in saying I mean college drop out is probably Yeah, I mean if you're asking me which album I would probably reach college drop out probably still comes out in front, but not by much

01:14:12.206 --> 01:14:21.092
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think as far as like that album is very influential, obviously, college dropout at that time.

01:14:22.253 --> 01:14:23.954
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Confessions was the bigger album.

01:14:24.335 --> 01:14:29.699
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the album that, you know, maybe changed dynamics a little bit at the time.

01:14:29.759 --> 01:14:37.344
[SPEAKER_01]: I think college dropout becomes way more influential, not only because of registration, but because of

01:14:38.165 --> 01:14:42.688
[SPEAKER_01]: the rapper's following Kanye who tried and and do what he did.

01:14:43.869 --> 01:14:52.434
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think qualitatively it's so close, like it's like percentage points, you know, between those two albums.

01:14:55.587 --> 01:15:18.041
[SPEAKER_01]: Other Grammys that he did win though, he wins a best male R&B vocal performance for there goes my baby in 2011 and best contemporary R&B album for Raymond versus Raymond, he wins best R&B performance in 2013 for climax and that looks to be it for a lot of Grammys.

01:15:25.862 --> 01:15:40.738
[SPEAKER_01]: Confessions is the best thing in the worst thing to happen to us or the best thing because it sets him off to what an incredible career that he's had, but at the same time, it was such a big album.

01:15:42.482 --> 01:15:57.586
[SPEAKER_01]: it everything else is in the shadow that has come out and nothing has come close like there are like I said there are stuff that I like on some of their albums but impact longevity like do you ever hear anybody go?

01:15:59.352 --> 01:16:02.215
[SPEAKER_01]: When's the last time you listen to usher's hard to love?

01:16:02.235 --> 01:16:05.178
[SPEAKER_01]: Like nobody says nobody says that.

01:16:06.319 --> 01:16:11.003
[SPEAKER_01]: But people, if you bring up usher, confessions may be the first thing that's the record.

01:16:11.544 --> 01:16:15.848
[SPEAKER_01]: So, like what you said, you kind of stole the thunder a little bit.

01:16:16.909 --> 01:16:17.670
[SPEAKER_01]: He has

01:16:19.570 --> 01:16:32.180
[SPEAKER_01]: a Johnny Gill type album in him now it may not be on the pop charts like he wants it to be the right from a respect standpoint.

01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:33.841
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's got that

01:16:35.521 --> 01:16:38.423
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm putting comeback in quotes because he's never really been gone though.

01:16:38.443 --> 01:16:51.330
[SPEAKER_01]: He's stayed away for several years, you know, before he's got an album that I think Could be Maybe you know his most critically acclaimed album.

01:16:51.510 --> 01:16:59.734
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he still has that if he wants it, but when you are as successful in rich as he is He's probably thinking

01:17:01.275 --> 01:17:05.116
[SPEAKER_01]: What am I going to do that will add to my touring?

01:17:05.216 --> 01:17:20.881
[SPEAKER_01]: Does this out, you know, does doing a heavy R and B album grownups music does that fit in the repertoire of the usher brand it might not, but I think that's the move if I was him.

01:17:22.381 --> 01:17:23.581
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that'll be my move.

01:17:23.701 --> 01:17:25.202
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look at a certain point.

01:17:27.277 --> 01:17:38.542
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you can't be chasing the charts or, you know, chasing like these humongous levels of success.

01:17:38.602 --> 01:17:40.143
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, infections is never going to be topped.

01:17:40.183 --> 01:17:41.263
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, Michael would throw it.

01:17:41.843 --> 01:17:45.765
[SPEAKER_00]: You keep making albums chasing thriller and nothing is ever going to top it.

01:17:45.785 --> 01:17:49.987
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just got to kind of like be like, that was a place in time.

01:17:50.147 --> 01:17:50.587
[SPEAKER_00]: I did it.

01:17:51.048 --> 01:17:51.548
[SPEAKER_00]: And now,

01:17:53.362 --> 01:17:57.264
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me figure out what my pocket is from there.

01:17:57.664 --> 01:18:03.667
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no such thing as like a multi-platinum 48-year-old R&B singer, like, it doesn't happen.

01:18:05.548 --> 01:18:16.534
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the move for us should be satisfying his artistic creativity and doing something that

01:18:17.844 --> 01:18:21.866
[SPEAKER_00]: is maybe a little bit more mature, a little less trend chasing.

01:18:22.447 --> 01:18:26.509
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, for all the artists in this age range, you know, I've said the same thing for Justin.

01:18:26.849 --> 01:18:42.918
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, make a record, make a record with the Roots, make a record with Raphael Sedique, make a record with somebody who really comes from, like, a soul music background, get rid of the guest rappers, get rid of trying to do trap beats or,

01:18:44.022 --> 01:18:55.291
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, the last usher album had like a K-pop collaboration, like all this stuff and just like make or sit down with a band because you can afford it.

01:18:56.425 --> 01:19:08.932
[SPEAKER_00]: going to a studio writes and songs and make a record that speaks to someone who was born in 1978 and grew up being influenced by like the Stevie wonders and the Michael Jackson's of the world.

01:19:09.732 --> 01:19:13.855
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think your core fan base will 100% respond to that.

01:19:15.296 --> 01:19:18.918
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were like, okay, so.

01:19:20.498 --> 01:19:28.686
[SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking of artists who had giant albums and then went left, just to kind of change things up a little bit.

01:19:29.807 --> 01:19:41.899
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you were advising artists who were maybe still chasing, you know, their past, like I think of Lady Gaga did that Joanne album.

01:19:45.048 --> 01:19:51.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's an audience that just wants to hear her dance club kind of style music, right?

01:19:51.893 --> 01:19:57.297
[SPEAKER_01]: But then like there's someone like me who is like, she's never been better than like a star's born.

01:19:57.357 --> 01:20:00.279
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the kind of lady guy that I hear right here, right?

01:20:00.319 --> 01:20:07.884
[SPEAKER_01]: So like if you're someone, you know, if you would be advising someone who's kind of growing in their career or maybe pass their peak.

01:20:09.728 --> 01:20:34.575
[SPEAKER_01]: like how do you how do you even get on radar sitting like is it through TikTok or Instagram like what is the what is the way to even you know still create awareness for music outside of PR of course there's going to be that your team does but like I think that's kind of the worry right is like are people going to retweet this thing or repost this thing on TikTok if not like I can't do it.

01:20:35.889 --> 01:20:43.633
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think at a certain point, you have to set sales expectations aside and do what you feel in your heart, right?

01:20:44.394 --> 01:20:51.978
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a lot harder for Black artists in general, but aren't be artist specifically to do.

01:20:52.638 --> 01:20:58.542
[SPEAKER_00]: Then it is for a white artist because, you know, if Bruce Springsteen wants to make an acoustic album,

01:20:59.502 --> 01:21:14.659
[SPEAKER_00]: people are going to follow Bruce Springsteen to make any acoustic album, but I think fans of more commercial types of music are so trained to hear things that are reminiscent of what they're hearing on the radio, that or somebody goes left, they're going to be like, uh, this is weird.

01:21:16.221 --> 01:21:19.365
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I think about something like let me go.

01:21:20.648 --> 01:21:28.236
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, who has never been anywhere near as popular is somebody like usher to make a couple of jumped and did the leg drop in the crowd.

01:21:30.478 --> 01:21:42.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Made a couple of really commercial sounding records and then kind of went left and did his own thing and you know is not as popular as it used to be but still has an audience and there are ways that you can speak to your audience directly.

01:21:43.632 --> 01:21:53.398
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, whether it's through email marketing or, you know, whether it is through social media, those are avenues that people didn't have in the past.

01:21:53.878 --> 01:22:03.444
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, if you're willing to be like, all right, so these casual fans are not going to rock with me on this, but my day one is going to rock with me.

01:22:03.965 --> 01:22:05.726
[SPEAKER_00]: And I might

01:22:07.082 --> 01:22:19.372
[SPEAKER_00]: develop a fanbase from this entirely like new place like you can't be afraid to like take those kind of chances I particularly like you're sure you have a cushion man Like you could go out on the road and tour behind confessions for the rest of your life.

01:22:19.432 --> 01:22:27.519
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep He could do a tour like how Stevie Wonder does the songs in the key of the life.

01:22:27.719 --> 01:22:30.061
[SPEAKER_00]: You can fashion it's 25th anniversary tour.

01:22:30.081 --> 01:22:31.643
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he totally can do that

01:22:32.857 --> 01:22:47.147
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so we'll be we'll be back with the top five on usher this was actually a lot easier than I thought and I kind of had to I had to really be honest with myself because there's some songs on there that

01:22:49.566 --> 01:22:52.067
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there aren't his best songs like I mentioned throwback.

01:22:52.107 --> 01:23:15.078
[SPEAKER_01]: I think throwback might be the the best song on on confessions But it's not the one that hooked me or stayed with me, so it's not gonna be on my list So I had to meet honest with myself because there's stuff on there like I'm like This may not be his best song, but for whatever reason This is the one that I just continue to go back to so it'll be some of that on my top five Oh, I'm very curious now.

01:23:15.418 --> 01:23:15.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay

01:23:17.532 --> 01:23:19.014
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that is it from here.

01:23:19.094 --> 01:23:26.259
[SPEAKER_01]: So my canal will be back at the top five and we we kind of wrote it down for the next 250 for 50s.

01:23:27.020 --> 01:23:36.427
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the next next week or whenever we record it is going to be CISA and then after CISA, we're going to do the John mayor episode, which

01:23:38.289 --> 01:23:40.531
[SPEAKER_01]: because there's a has only a couple albums.

01:23:41.052 --> 01:23:41.913
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got two of them.

01:23:41.933 --> 01:23:47.298
[SPEAKER_01]: I can kind of do both when I'm listening back, and John Mayer's got a much more extensive catalog.

01:23:47.338 --> 01:23:51.883
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm kind of listening to both at the same time knowing that we put them back to back like that.

01:23:53.185 --> 01:23:54.847
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so that is it from here.

01:23:54.887 --> 01:23:57.930
[SPEAKER_01]: So for Mike, I'm double G, see you when we see you piece.