Mary J. Blige's What's the 411? Deep Dive and the Year of 1992 | 50 For 50

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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to 50 for 50 as Mike and I go through 50 albums to celebrate our soon to be 50 years on where we're in the home stretch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We are absolutely not stretch.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Not in the podcast home stretch.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know if we're halfway yet, but we won't be halfway for a little bit.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, but we're definitely in the birthday home stretch.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what we should probably

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[SPEAKER_00]: to just do something non-album related just to kind of talk about stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll figure it out.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we'll figure it out.

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[SPEAKER_04]: We have a little bit of time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about Mary J. Blige 1992.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What's the 411?

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[SPEAKER_00]: And as you know, I like to listen to the albums as many of them as I can get through before we record.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Mary got a lot of albums.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Mary has a lot of albums.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I was actually wondering how you were going to be looking through every single one of her records.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get close by the way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just going to, I don't even know if people realize how many albums she has.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What's a 4011992 her debut album?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's when we're going to talk about there's a remix album to what's the 4011 comes out the following year.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then in 94 my life 97 share my world 99 Mary 2001 no more drama 2003 love in life 2005 the breakthrough 2007 growing pain 2009 strong over the each tier

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[SPEAKER_00]: At, I would say at the breakthrough, I, I would, I would lose any sort of bet for a million dollars if I could name the rest of our albums.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I would have lost.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I might, I might be able to, to take care of that for you.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, after the breakthroughs, growing pains, then what is after growing pains?

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[SPEAKER_04]: After growing pains, I think, is my life, too, stronger with each, stronger with each tier.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then my life, too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You got that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she actually takes quite a quite a long break as far as a solo album is concerned.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then London sessions.

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[SPEAKER_00]: London.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there's think like a man too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the soundtrack, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Which is credited to her as to her right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, album or soundtrack album or whatever.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then the London session, like you said, right.

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[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of your Christmas album in there, too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, I remember the Christmas album, but it's not listed on iTunes as part of her entire discography.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, then there's probably good morning, gorgeous.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Good morning, gorgeous is in is the the set after strength of a woman strength of a woman right then good morning, gorgeous.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then just a lot, uh, 2024 graditude, yeah, and I think she has an album schedule to come up this year.

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[SPEAKER_04]: my goodness as woman works is a busy woman.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So the one thing that I realized and we kind I was kind of thinking about this when we did the Alicia Keys 50 for 50.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Now Alicia when Alicia comes out

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like we were in high school.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We were, you know, we were already, it was already in the 2000s.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But when Mary comes out, we are in high school.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And so for some reason, that makes me feel a little bit closer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Even though Mary is older than us, that makes me feel closer to kind of like, you know, the Mary timeframe, then the Alicia Keys timeframe.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And what I realized is,

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[SPEAKER_00]: We kind of grew up with so many different versions of Mary, because when Mary, when Mary debuted, she's like the young swagger hip hop R&B, like the way that they dress her, and we'll talk a little bit about the person who kind of is in charge of that of her career early on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, there's a look, there's a style and she just seems like cool like she's she's kind of it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then as she grows, you know, she becomes popular.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She becomes a little bit more mainstream and so then her look at her sound changes and then she kind of at some point just becomes like Auntie Mary.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what we would even consider her now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine, I don't know if, like, what her personal life is like, but she's like, you know, she could have grand babies if she, you know, of that age.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, you know, for us having seen

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[SPEAKER_00]: sort of the whole transition through life of an artist, especially for the female side, she seems like the person that I guess I'm closely as closely connected to when it comes to that point.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't even see Mariah in that same lane because I think Mariah has tried to kind of always be

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[SPEAKER_00]: I guess a little silly older version of the Mariah that she was in the beginning, whereas Mary I feel like has transitioned with her age a little bit more.

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[SPEAKER_04]: There's maybe been a little bit more evolution, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, when Mary came out Mary was the first.

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[SPEAKER_04]: female artists to really be like, she was an R&B singer, but she had hip-hop swag.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Like, before that, all of the female R&B singers that were out kind of had either like the evening gown, kind of that sort of like quote-unquote classy vibe, or they were Janet.

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[SPEAKER_04]: you know, operating kind of in that like Janet Lane, but Mary was really the first first woman artist that came out and had that like ghetto swag that came out and was like, you know, I'm definitely of the hip hop generation, like I can rap to, but you know, I also studied Shaka Khan and Patty LaBelle and Arita, and I'm from the lineage of those singers.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it sounds like when Andre Herrell did finally find her and get to do something with her.

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[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I don't really know what to do.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she, not anybody like, I know how to promote or how to market or how to style.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where she broke the mold like there was nobody like her before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: and then that's where Sean Puffy Combs comes in.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, let's just get this out of the way, because I don't really want to talk about him too much, but I did, but I did a search because I was kind of interested in how she has talked about him over the years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: because I think early on, and you know, we've always had Puffy being in the news for the wrong reasons throughout like his entire career, but a lot of it was kind of small-ish and some of it was temper-related, like he's cracking people in the head with stuff and he's just fighting.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then it obviously gets to where it is today.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she kind of was always like, got his back, got his back, got his back.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then it sounds like it's kind of she can't really have his back anymore and she's pulled her comments back, but not in a way of like dismissing him, but just in a way of like, this is kind of where I am right now kind of way.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, it's been like respectful distance, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Like what can she say, you know, when I really noticed that is when she got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which I believe was the year before last and she didn't mention him once.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, okay, like that is that is clearly a conscious decision because, you know, what's in the world is that there wouldn't be a Mary J. Blyg, if it wasn't for Sean Cones, um, so to leave him out feels like a deliberate omission.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I know that.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he helped make the first two albums and then kind of backed off and then resurfaced and they made an album together that wasn't received well and apparently the making of it wasn't great, but they, you know, they've been on the periphery each other for a really long time.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So for him to not even be like,

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[SPEAKER_04]: mentioned like sideways anymore feels like a deliberate omission and who knows why she's making those decisions.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, like I would certainly want to be as far away from from anything related to that man as possible.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, but, you know, the reality is that, you know, he is definitely a very influential part of, at least in the early days, like the start of her story.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you are,

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[SPEAKER_00]: from a PR perspective if you're like helping her out, you would probably say at your own rock and roll Hall of Fame ceremony, don't mention him because whatever you say is going to take precedence over your moment.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is true.

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[SPEAKER_04]: That is very true.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so before we get to the year of 1992, I was interested in what like what is your order of Mary's best albums?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man, how should I, you should have let me prepare for that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's, it's a soft, it's off the top like I was just interested because as I was listening back to them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the first few albums are the most memorable.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, my life is my favorite Mary J. Blageauv.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's everybody's favorite Mary J. Blageauv.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I lived, I lived with that album.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I remember, like sort of end of 94 beginning of 95, just at night, at get them from work and just play my life in crazy, sexy cool on a roof like over and over and over and over and over again.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I live with those albums in a way that I don't really live with music anymore, but my life still holds up, still sounds great, fantastic record.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't know that Mary has ever actually made a bad album, maybe up until that last one gratitude.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I tried to listen back to something that and I was like, too much auto tune, which...

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[SPEAKER_04]: you know, she's an amazing singer.

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[SPEAKER_04]: She doesn't need auto tune.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It just felt like she was maybe trying a little bit too hard and got away from what makes her so great.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But you know, I think there's spots in all of her albums that are at a really good.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So my life when I was going back through my

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[SPEAKER_00]: It was frustrating to go through because it was a commentary version.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So there would be a track and then she'd talk about it and then there'd be a track and then she'd talk about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Then there'd be an interlude, then she'd talk about it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I just want to listen to the music.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's not a non commentary version of that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if I search, but I was just going through her page on Apple music and then going through all the albums that way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so hard to listen.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the year that was a 1992.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So many things happen in 1992 on this list.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start in January, January 11, 1992.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Nirvana's never mind goes to number one in the US billboard at top 200 establishing the widespread popularity of the grunge movement of 19 of the 1990s.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And in a, we talked about this when we recorded our, our Sineo Hall review of his book February fifth, Newcast on the block and wrap their tour to perform on the our Sineo Hall show in response to rumors that the group lick lip sinks its concerts, which I mean,

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, whatever, I mean, you know, I'm certain, you know what, it probably they're lip-sinking to their own vocals obviously, but you can make more of a case that they lip-sinking now than you were able to make a case that they lip-sink back then.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we also talked about it in that episode with on our scenario, which is the power of our scenario when it came to this music, like, and this audience, yeah, for sure.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: February 24th, Nirvana's Kirk Cobain, Mary's Halls, Courtney Love.

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[SPEAKER_04]: The big moment, you know, and

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[SPEAKER_04]: For whatever people say about that marriage, like, you know, it appeared to be a union of two relatively toxic human beings, you know, and unfortunately, I mean, maybe not because of the marriage, but unfortunately, Kurt, you know, didn't live much longer after that.

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[SPEAKER_04]: He was only around for about another two years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And well, this is not the last of them.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have one more.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's more.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wonderful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: February 25th, six major record companies reaching agreement to phase out the long box form of compact disc packaging in 1993 by April of 1993 due to the complaints that the packaging is environmentally wasteful.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not only wasteful, but kind of a pain in the ass to open.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Pain in the ass to open, a pain in the ass for stores to stock like it was just really weird.

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[SPEAKER_04]: if you are listening or watching this and you are younger than 40.

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[SPEAKER_04]: CDs used to be packaged in this really like, in this rectangular box, which was like 40% CD and 60% just like,

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[SPEAKER_04]: cardboard.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So it was super wasteful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You bring the CD home and then have to like unwrap this package throw most of it away or you know like my relatives would buy CDs and I would use the cardboard to like do art shit.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But it was super super wasteful and you know I'm glad that there was a movement away from that.

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[SPEAKER_04]: What was the reason for it?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Who the hell knows?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: because the compact disc in of itself was small.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just just a plastic casing around the compact disc.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but in order to get to that, yet this like card blank take this whole like thing.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if the reason they did it that way is so that CDs could fit in like record bins or maybe it was like a security like lost prevention.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know why they did it, but it was super wasteful.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The 34th annual Grammys, also on the 25th, are presented in New York, hosted by will be Goldberg, Natalie Cole's Unforgivable with love went out of the year, while her virtual duet cover of Unforgivable with her late father, Nat King Cole wins both record and song of the year, Mark Cohen wins best new artist.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So much great music.

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[SPEAKER_04]: in 1991, and we get Natalie Cole and Mark Cohen.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And just for the record, the best new artist nominees that you were boys to men, CNC music factory, Colony Bad, Seal, and Mark Cohen, and Mark Cohen won.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Which I think tells you all you need to know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: March 10th at the 92 Soul Train Music Awards, Prince Wins, the Heritage Award for Lifetime Achievement.

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[SPEAKER_00]: March 16th, Mariah Carey performs at MTV Unplugged shows critics her five octave range and gets rave reviews.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And from what I remember, that's where she does all be there, right?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, Mariah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, people had given Mariah crap early on because she didn't tour behind her first two records.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So this was really for a lot of people that first chance they got to see her in a live setting and that unplugged album is actually pretty good like she, she, you know, I still play it from time to time like it's a good album.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What's my man's name?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Who was on that song with her?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Shree, train Lorenz.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there we go.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Do I think it's still occasionally singing background from Mariah?

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[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no way.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's awesome.

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[SPEAKER_00]: April 20th, the Freddie Mercury tribute concert takes place at Wembley Stadium in London.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All proceeds go to AIDS research.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Great show from what I remember George Michael, David Bowie, Guns and Rose is out in John.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Like so many great performers, so many great performances.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I think that show aired on regular TV after while I was on like Fox something like that.

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[SPEAKER_04]: So I got to see pieces of it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And on April 24th, David Bowie married fashion model Eman.

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[SPEAKER_04]: That was like the, you know, after Lenny and Lisa, that's like the second two very, very attractive human beings who have no business being together getting married to one another.

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[SPEAKER_00]: May 6th, Selena releases her album.

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[SPEAKER_00]: On 3, Mundo, which contains her first number one hit

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[SPEAKER_00]: June 27, Michael Jackson starts the dangerous world tour supporting his dangerous album in Munich, Germany, July 11th, November, rain by Guns and Rosa Centers, the world record books when it becomes the longest single at almost nine minutes to reach the US top 20.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The singles video has a budget of over 1.5 million becoming the most expensive at the time.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's a good song.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I got to see Gunson Rose's live in 2019.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And they were very good.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, November rain is just one of those like epic ballads, like memorable video, great song.

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[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, nine minutes.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, radio didn't always do the radio edit piece.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Like sometimes they played the full nine minutes at a jump.

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[SPEAKER_00]: July 18th, Whitney Mary's Bobby.

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[SPEAKER_00]: July 27, iced tea announces that cop killer is being pulled from body count self-titled album.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I did a, this was the summer before my senior year in high school.

18:54.203 --> 19:07.940
[SPEAKER_04]: And I remember for one of my classes doing a presentation on cop killer and playing it, you know, playing the I had bought a bootleg cassette of the body count album and played it for my classmates and they were horrified.

19:09.502 --> 19:10.844
[SPEAKER_04]: But I also got an A on the paper.

19:10.904 --> 19:12.326
[SPEAKER_04]: So thanks, I see.

19:13.888 --> 19:14.689
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

19:15.580 --> 19:22.251
[SPEAKER_00]: August 18th Francis Bean Cobain, daughter of Kurt and Courtney is born.

19:22.311 --> 19:26.618
[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go, that's the three, we got three of them.

19:26.859 --> 19:28.722
[SPEAKER_04]: A lot of lives, Kurt, a lot of them.

19:30.505 --> 19:37.336
[SPEAKER_00]: October 3rd, Chanel Connersters up controversy when she rips up a picture of the Pope on Saturday Night Live.

19:38.598 --> 19:41.222
[SPEAKER_00]: Very memorable moment of Saturday Night Live.

19:41.422 --> 19:42.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes indeed.

19:43.542 --> 19:55.624
[SPEAKER_00]: October 31, end of the road by boys to men post a 12th consecutive week at number one in the U.S. charts ending a 36 year old record previously held by Elvis Presley.

19:55.664 --> 20:03.238
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be broken the next year by Whitney Houston.

20:03.708 --> 20:07.094
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to do, we should do a voice to man episode.

20:07.354 --> 20:09.297
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, we have that like locked in or not.

20:09.337 --> 20:11.361
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we got to figure out something about them.

20:11.381 --> 20:13.705
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, and wait me for that matter.

20:15.267 --> 20:21.598
[SPEAKER_00]: There's still possibility that we will do a none.

20:22.085 --> 20:23.447
[SPEAKER_00]: popular Whitney Album.

20:23.487 --> 20:24.468
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess we could see it.

20:24.948 --> 20:26.250
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still a possibility.

20:26.470 --> 20:26.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

20:26.790 --> 20:27.832
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to put it together.

20:28.572 --> 20:37.803
[SPEAKER_00]: Jackson's American Dream, a two-part mini series based on the Jackson Family premieres on ABC when we did our review of the Michael movie we talked a little bit about this.

20:38.083 --> 20:43.890
[SPEAKER_03]: Joseph, you a liar and a cheetah and I don't want you no more.

20:45.575 --> 21:00.739
[SPEAKER_00]: Michael, Mollon, I'm gonna get a beat, oh god, oh god, oh god, November 17, the soundtrack of the bodyguard is released.

21:01.701 --> 21:10.114
[SPEAKER_00]: The album went on to be certified 18 times platinum and sell 45 million copies worldwide.

21:10.246 --> 21:12.755
[SPEAKER_04]: a lot of people own that soundtrack album.

21:13.358 --> 21:14.783
[SPEAKER_04]: I was never one of those people.

21:15.345 --> 21:19.581
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I had it either, but maybe my sister had it, but I don't remember having it.

21:19.645 --> 21:32.017
[SPEAKER_04]: I had, like, made a cassette copy off of some, like you couldn't avoid the bodyguard soundtrack, but I was like, I don't know if I like this soundtrack can have to pay $10 for it.

21:32.178 --> 21:35.461
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, I was very limited.

21:35.821 --> 21:38.264
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some other fun Whitney songs on that album, though.

21:38.384 --> 21:39.685
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

21:39.705 --> 21:40.506
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you seen the movie?

21:41.006 --> 21:41.207
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

21:42.248 --> 21:45.871
[SPEAKER_00]: I watched the movie like, for the first time, maybe like three years ago.

21:46.452 --> 21:47.593
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow, what did you think?

21:49.632 --> 21:53.456
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little long, unnecessarily long.

21:56.399 --> 22:01.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Whitney's not the greatest actress, which I don't think we should have expected that.

22:02.045 --> 22:10.454
[SPEAKER_00]: Because she was a performer, like the story of Bill Cosby, wanting her to be Sandra and the Cosby show.

22:10.474 --> 22:11.215
[SPEAKER_00]: Cosby shows, right?

22:12.696 --> 22:19.183
[SPEAKER_00]: And the weirdest thing about this movie and this just tells you about Hollywood in the 90s.

22:21.121 --> 22:49.660
[SPEAKER_00]: They there should have been a sex scene that didn't that kind of got stopped at some point and it you know it's funny about that is Like to me when I was watching kind of how they were being positioned like Kevin Costner giant movie star of course wouldn't he use in giant pop star And as I was watching that scene I was like in back my head Whitney's actually the one

22:52.120 --> 22:57.286
[SPEAKER_00]: like at the higher level than Kevin in my mind.

22:58.026 --> 23:01.470
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm like, should she sleep with this dude?

23:01.550 --> 23:06.175
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was doing like the, who's got the most power in this moment, kind of thing.

23:06.195 --> 23:06.396
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

23:06.916 --> 23:08.258
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess a really interesting thing.

23:08.298 --> 23:09.659
[SPEAKER_04]: I think for a couple of reasons.

23:09.839 --> 23:11.261
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, one, we're talking about Mary J.

23:11.301 --> 23:13.824
[SPEAKER_04]: Blood Generegy, blood just an Oscar nominated actress.

23:14.164 --> 23:14.665
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

23:14.705 --> 23:19.410
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is not something that you would have expected at the time that the bodyguard

23:19.390 --> 23:34.395
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, was a hit and we were thinking of Mary is just like new upcoming singer and Whitney was the singer who was trying to become an actress, but, you know, and again, I think we'll talk more in depth about Whitney at a later date, but I think, you know, for that love scene, it was like.

23:35.776 --> 23:42.114
[SPEAKER_04]: Kevin Costner's fans, some of whom would have been weirded out seeing him do a sex scene with the black woman.

23:42.836 --> 23:49.414
[SPEAKER_04]: Whitney's fans, some of whom might be disappointed in seeing her have a sex scene with a white man.

23:49.917 --> 24:03.652
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, you've got to like play the middle on that in a weird way, um, and, you know, I've read Bobby's biography and I don't know that he was too crazy about the idea of his woman having a love scene with anybody.

24:04.413 --> 24:08.057
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, he was just, you know, all kinds of mess.

24:09.298 --> 24:10.359
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was almost to me.

24:10.399 --> 24:18.388
[SPEAKER_00]: It was almost like, Whitney's kind of like royalty and you don't,

24:18.622 --> 24:29.931
[SPEAKER_00]: Crash Davis from Bull Durham still you're not you're not at that level in my mind, but it's kind of funny that that we had different, you know, different sides looking at it in different ways different ways.

24:30.502 --> 24:33.447
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, and then this is this is interesting.

24:33.547 --> 24:34.669
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not realize this.

24:34.709 --> 24:35.811
[SPEAKER_00]: This goes back to 1992.

24:35.991 --> 24:37.494
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no date on this.

24:38.255 --> 24:48.272
[SPEAKER_00]: But according to the information I pulled in the year of 1992, the MP3 file format is developed as part of a video compression standard.

24:49.193 --> 24:50.916
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, 92, man.

24:51.617 --> 24:52.098
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

24:52.118 --> 24:53.941
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even think I had a computer in 92.

24:54.142 --> 24:55.564
[SPEAKER_04]: I did not.

24:55.713 --> 24:56.654
[SPEAKER_04]: I definitely did not.

24:56.674 --> 24:59.478
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I owned my own computer until like 98 or 99.

24:59.518 --> 24:59.799
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm.

25:01.761 --> 25:01.962
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.

25:01.982 --> 25:02.683
[SPEAKER_00]: So back to Mary.

25:04.225 --> 25:07.529
[SPEAKER_00]: Who was she before we saw her in 1992?

25:08.971 --> 25:22.570
[SPEAKER_00]: So Mary was born in the Bronx in 1971, spent her formative years in the, you're going to have to help me with this pronunciation, Shlobam project, Shlobam project, Shlobam projects.

25:22.590 --> 25:23.211
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go with that.

25:23.231 --> 25:24.893
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it was Shlobam.

25:25.278 --> 25:30.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the nickname supposedly is people would just call it the slow bomb.

25:31.252 --> 26:00.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Her father, Jazz Musician, and Vietnam War vet, suffering from PTSD, left the family when she was young, her mom was a nurse, and her sister was a single parent, and I guess this kind of, as far as Mary's perspective on war and such, because of what she witnessed,

26:00.935 --> 26:02.879
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, just where she grew up and stuff.

26:02.939 --> 26:08.511
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really affected her, I guess, and she had this like survivalist mentality for her early life.

26:09.353 --> 26:12.198
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you know about about Mary's early life?

26:13.140 --> 26:22.099
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, other than just, you know, sort of reading through interviews and, and, you know, hearing her talk about what she experienced like she, Mary would be the

26:23.243 --> 26:25.989
[SPEAKER_04]: In a different world, Mary would be the perfect person to write a memoir.

26:26.029 --> 26:29.497
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I think she would share up until a point.

26:29.537 --> 26:36.713
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how deep she would get as she was to write something now, but she came out.

26:37.621 --> 26:39.024
[SPEAKER_04]: with this like hard shell.

26:40.005 --> 26:44.093
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think we know like little bits and pieces of where that hard shell came from.

26:44.133 --> 26:52.548
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, to be a woman grown up in the hood, you know, all this stuff you kind of have, you know, that hard shell is kind of intrinsic within you.

26:53.771 --> 26:55.073
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know,

26:55.053 --> 26:56.594
[SPEAKER_04]: hearing about her family life.

26:57.215 --> 26:59.137
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, she's still very close to her.

26:59.257 --> 27:06.744
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, her and her sister have been like rocking like this from like day one, um, Latania blodges, everywhere Maryji blodges.

27:07.464 --> 27:21.297
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so, you know, those family ties are tight, but I would love to hear, you know, have somebody catch Mary in a moment during the interview when she maybe doesn't have her guard up and she's totally relaxed and, you know, hear her talk about her life.

27:21.357 --> 27:22.798
[SPEAKER_04]: I think

27:24.112 --> 27:26.135
[SPEAKER_00]: So how is she found?

27:27.517 --> 27:37.690
[SPEAKER_00]: As my research, my research says she was at the mall, and she spent a few dollars at the record your own tape kiosk.

27:38.632 --> 27:42.096
[SPEAKER_00]: And she sang a cover of Anita Baker's caught up in the rapture.

27:43.879 --> 27:47.824
[SPEAKER_00]: The her mother's boyfriend showed the tape

27:48.226 --> 28:00.288
[SPEAKER_00]: To Jeff Red, a rising artist on uptown, Red was so floored, he gave it to Andre Hurrell, the CEO at the time of uptown.

28:01.390 --> 28:08.644
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he signed her in 1989, nobody knew her, nobody heard of her coming in.

28:08.664 --> 28:10.487
[SPEAKER_00]: And

28:11.362 --> 28:14.406
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, what do I do with this woman?

28:14.446 --> 28:20.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she is untrained and she's not pop necessarily.

28:20.755 --> 28:22.558
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do we, you know, how do we sell her?

28:23.419 --> 28:28.125
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where Sean Puffy Combs comes into play.

28:28.186 --> 28:38.500
[SPEAKER_00]: He realized that instead of putting her in a gown that they should lean into kind of her street sense and her reality.

28:38.885 --> 28:48.054
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and perfect kind of person to kind of bridge this R&B in hip hop movement from a young songstress.

28:48.694 --> 28:49.915
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very smart, by the way.

28:49.976 --> 28:56.862
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you have a little, you know, we can give him credit for that, even if, you know, he's, I mean, all, all the other bullshit aside, right?

28:57.022 --> 29:07.272
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, Puffy in that respect was a visionary, um, you know, like I said, back in the

29:07.910 --> 29:13.416
[SPEAKER_04]: or you're going to be like, Janet Jackson or Paula Abdul or like, you know, those were the two lanes you went in.

29:14.317 --> 29:18.781
[SPEAKER_04]: And Mary opened up a completely different lane.

29:19.442 --> 29:37.140
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, I think some of that was some of that was due to like the imagery that Puffy kind of, you know, that he was able to ideate on and kind of create for her.

29:39.078 --> 29:42.405
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... the where we first hear her

29:43.432 --> 29:47.315
[SPEAKER_00]: is on father mc's album.

29:47.335 --> 29:47.616
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

29:47.816 --> 29:48.336
[SPEAKER_00]: That were you.

29:48.957 --> 29:49.237
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

29:49.998 --> 29:56.343
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if I put two and two together until after what's the 4011 came out that that was the same person.

29:56.564 --> 29:56.864
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

29:57.084 --> 29:57.284
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

29:57.304 --> 29:58.125
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you didn't know.

29:58.165 --> 30:08.054
[SPEAKER_04]: It's crazy to me to think of father mc, like his first two singles, the background vocalists were Joe to see in Mary J. Blage, who both laughed him fairly quickly.

30:08.534 --> 30:08.774
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

30:09.435 --> 30:11.717
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you know, wonder how he feels about that.

30:14.988 --> 30:25.640
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what's funny is, like he was trying to be like a budget version of Big Daddy King.

30:26.081 --> 30:27.923
[SPEAKER_04]: I was thinking the same thing.

30:28.503 --> 30:29.004
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

30:29.024 --> 30:32.648
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he was like, you know, he was definitely like the love man.

30:33.369 --> 30:33.669
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

30:33.689 --> 30:34.030
[SPEAKER_04]: Rapper.

30:34.450 --> 30:37.013
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know,

30:38.292 --> 30:47.463
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, like it worked for a minute, he had a couple of hits like he was reasonably popular, but you know, Joe to see in Mary went on to become legends and father.

30:47.483 --> 30:55.232
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing kind of got left in dust a little bit and then, you know, like you said, you know, and I'm glad you mentioned the jodacy piece because.

30:57.415 --> 30:59.237
[SPEAKER_00]: Mary and Casey Hayley.

31:00.044 --> 31:01.826
[SPEAKER_00]: hook up and become a couple.

31:02.527 --> 31:06.994
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's crazy fallout of that relationship.

31:07.374 --> 31:14.264
[SPEAKER_00]: But on what's the 411, the intro track is like a bunch of people calling her on her voicemail.

31:15.145 --> 31:18.389
[SPEAKER_00]: And Casey is on that voicemail.

31:19.771 --> 31:27.722
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you, if you didn't know about their relationship, his message is essentially

31:28.293 --> 31:34.944
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when you know what happened in their relationship, the, hey, Mary, where you at pick up the phone kind of sounds aggressive a little bit.

31:35.065 --> 31:45.082
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, bit and I was listening to it going like, oh, man, like, it might supposed to, I'm not supposed to take this as being aggressive, but I'm taking this as being aggressive.

31:45.102 --> 31:45.342
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

31:45.483 --> 31:48.728
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, knowing what you know in retrospect, yeah, I can write you come to that.

31:50.091 --> 31:53.777
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, has she really talked about this relationship anywhere?

31:56.677 --> 31:58.627
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a really, really long time.

31:59.773 --> 32:04.257
[SPEAKER_04]: I think, you know, I think they were fairly open about,

32:04.912 --> 32:27.105
[SPEAKER_04]: dating each other as it was happening and then kind of in the aftermath of that you know there was stuff and then like on the Mary album after they broken up they made a record together yes which is which was so confusing yeah yeah but then I think they very much you know Mary decided to go in a different direction and she kind of left that behind

32:27.085 --> 32:32.352
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I would say up until that point, Mary and K.C.

32:32.372 --> 32:48.553
[SPEAKER_04]: were maybe on like the same level success-wise and then like after 2000, Mary like moved up and, you know, Joseph C. became kind of an nostalgia act and, you know, they just are on very separate sides of the coin now.

32:49.867 --> 33:02.307
[SPEAKER_00]: So we went through the discography, and I was actually interested to see like what albums sold much better than others, and up until the 2010s or whatever the...

33:02.894 --> 33:15.390
[SPEAKER_00]: The sales information isn't as strong as it was pre, but what's 411, at least the numbers I have, has her at 3.5 million for US sales.

33:16.271 --> 33:27.906
[SPEAKER_00]: My life and share my world, both at 3, Mary drops a little bit, but no more drama comes back with 3.2, and then even the breakthrough, after 11 life,

33:28.021 --> 33:32.827
[SPEAKER_00]: It was her lowest selling album at that point that breakthrough comes back to over three million.

33:32.887 --> 33:36.251
[SPEAKER_00]: So she kind of had this interesting, like, up and down.

33:36.732 --> 33:42.279
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then then come back up and then, you know, who knows as far as the record counting of today.

33:42.299 --> 33:43.501
[SPEAKER_00]: But I thought that was pretty interesting.

33:43.541 --> 33:52.392
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she doesn't have that one album that sold so much more than the rest, which says that she had some good consistency people knew.

33:52.372 --> 34:00.021
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, if when Mary comes out, it's probably going to be worthy, which goes back to what you said about her not really having a bad album.

34:00.482 --> 34:03.405
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, Mary's fans are incredibly loyal.

34:04.166 --> 34:13.738
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, she built part of the reason she built up that loyalty is just that the quality of her records was super consistent from one album to the next.

34:13.718 --> 34:20.827
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you knew that if a Mary album came out, her fan, like she had a dedicated fan base, that was gonna come out and buy it no matter what.

34:21.408 --> 34:26.795
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, some albums kind of appeal to just the core fan base.

34:27.256 --> 34:32.723
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, you might get hit off one of the albums, like, you know, and family affair came out.

34:33.564 --> 34:36.709
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, pop fans were like, oh shit, Mary J. Blodge.

34:36.729 --> 34:40.013
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, I think there is, you know, some extra added sales on top of that.

34:41.613 --> 35:04.600
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... the album produced by dave jam hall davante swing of jodice i just recently watched uh... blackish the episode where the uh... and rewants to name the last child davante davante here is so good is so good and uh... as we were watching it

35:04.782 --> 35:09.255
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, I've never seen, like I'd seen episodes of Blackish, but I'd never watched it all the way through.

35:09.355 --> 35:10.739
[SPEAKER_00]: So now one can all the way through.

35:10.779 --> 35:14.168
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're in like season three or season four, like Trump just got elected.

35:15.071 --> 35:19.062
[SPEAKER_00]: And so watching it, um,

35:20.510 --> 35:30.400
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so like some of the stuff is like, if you were around at a certain time in place, like you know exactly where the episode is going, but if you were like, it's kind of new.

35:30.460 --> 35:35.385
[SPEAKER_00]: And so a lot of this stuff, I'm like, okay, I already know where this is going, just because of my knowledge.

35:35.925 --> 35:46.095
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was that was one of those episodes, because I was like, wait, like, the third most important person of Joe to see that's who you want to do.

35:47.138 --> 35:51.382
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, look, Devontase is the one who wrote all the music and kind of like produced the record.

35:51.402 --> 35:58.268
[SPEAKER_04]: So I, like, I would argue Devontase might have been, I mean, at the very least, the second most important book.

35:58.288 --> 36:01.251
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I should say the third most well known.

36:01.271 --> 36:02.352
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and sure.

36:02.593 --> 36:08.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then, you know, if he would have, if he wanted to name his baby, Mr. Dalvin.

36:09.039 --> 36:11.421
[SPEAKER_00]: Mr. Dalvin, oh, I should have been like that.

36:11.441 --> 36:13.623
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, it's like, you know, just stuff like that.

36:13.743 --> 36:16.926
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you start thinking about things.

36:17.767 --> 36:21.672
[SPEAKER_00]: I was actually, I wanted, we wanted to do a YouTube short, but let's actually do this here.

36:21.693 --> 36:32.027
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it actually works well in this format because I asked her, said, hey, 90s boy band, or 90s R&B groups, like how would you rank them?

36:32.087 --> 36:38.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, you know, I think boys to men comes up on everybody's list, because they were so popular with those first two albums.

36:39.257 --> 36:43.803
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're, we're, we're, you put everybody else in your, in your top five list.

36:43.824 --> 36:44.905
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I,

36:46.623 --> 36:48.446
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, voice to men is probably number one.

36:48.466 --> 36:51.210
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, voice to men in Joe to see are probably number one and number two.

36:53.573 --> 36:55.295
[SPEAKER_04]: Drew Hill, probably number three.

36:56.217 --> 37:03.427
[SPEAKER_04]: Just because I think they have like a pretty consistent, you know, consistent, discography.

37:04.188 --> 37:07.112
[SPEAKER_04]: Are we doing boy groups and girl groups?

37:07.173 --> 37:11.719
[SPEAKER_04]: Are we doing just like, no, I think girl groups fit.

37:12.644 --> 37:16.087
[SPEAKER_04]: So, we'll be boys to men, Jonah C. Drew Hill, SWV.

37:17.248 --> 37:24.474
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm tempted to put TLC number five, but Chile, I'm not on team TLC right now.

37:25.055 --> 37:28.358
[SPEAKER_04]: So, we're gonna have to take TLC off the list.

37:28.698 --> 37:36.165
[SPEAKER_04]: Can include new addition, cause, you know, the only made one album in the 90s.

37:36.285 --> 37:39.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think of them more as an 80s act for sure.

37:39.948 --> 37:42.010
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, maybe Black Street?

37:42.935 --> 38:03.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it's interesting because there's so many memorable groups from back then so many like I think of someone like shy right like for classic songs like shy has like two or three songs I could hold up with anybody's yeah, I mean that first shy album is dope.

38:04.422 --> 38:08.627
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, shy or silk or you know high five mint condition.

38:08.987 --> 38:09.668
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

38:09.648 --> 38:16.616
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, there's lots of, and you know, to be fair, make condition was more like a band in less like a singing group.

38:17.297 --> 38:20.601
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, but, you know, I mean, it's kind of like voice to men.

38:21.202 --> 38:25.487
[SPEAKER_04]: Show to see your show to see boys to men depending on which way you want to look at it.

38:26.228 --> 38:30.393
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and then kind of like, you know, Drew Hill.

38:32.115 --> 38:38.963
[SPEAKER_04]: Involve even, although I can't even really say there's an invoke album that I like all the way through.

38:40.985 --> 38:59.432
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, same thing with like high five greatest hits album perfect, but I'm not bumping a high five album and then you got you know silk shy intro, calling me bad, you know, just like a very long list of like groups that came out.

38:59.412 --> 39:05.782
[SPEAKER_04]: kind of, you know, voice men had called me bad with the first in jodacy like they were that they all three came out around the same time.

39:05.802 --> 39:10.290
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it was just a rush of groups that came out after them in the mid 90s.

39:10.330 --> 39:23.631
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd asked me this question, I would say jodacy won voice men to because jodacy was just cooler like voice to men was

39:25.501 --> 39:52.673
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's something about boy spends ability to, you know, stay in, in, in, you know, in the music, they were continued to make albums and Joe to sort of kind of fall off and then it just became Casey and Joe Joe and that's how they marketed each other and so I think boys to men is the right number one answer, but I think it's kind of interesting to think back, you know, in 1993.

39:54.273 --> 40:02.423
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have thought that jodacy would be the the bigger group, but obviously they they were not white white people were scared of jodacy.

40:02.743 --> 40:17.301
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just I just remember them being on the Martin Lawrence show when they did that and Martin comes out singing like and I was like These guys are like on a television show that you know, that is a very popular.

40:17.361 --> 40:18.322
[SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of insane.

40:18.942 --> 40:21.726
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, jodacy was definitely like the hood favorite for some reason.

40:21.966 --> 40:22.727
[SPEAKER_04]: It was

40:22.707 --> 40:25.289
[SPEAKER_04]: this has to have been like deaf comedy jam.

40:25.309 --> 40:37.781
[SPEAKER_04]: One of those comedy shows they did they were talking about Joe to see and they bring up KC and they start singing forever my lady and the way they sing it is I'm going to see if I remember because I couldn't bear it to myself.

40:38.341 --> 40:52.714
[SPEAKER_04]: So I look like a

40:52.694 --> 41:15.377
[SPEAKER_04]: and then there's the forever shenanet that's right that became kind of a big thing so i just always assume i was like you know jodice is gonna be around forever and then they were not absolutely not though they're still out there they're still out there i saw them on tour two years ago three years ago they did a show it was jodice swv in drool um jodice was the headliner

41:15.644 --> 41:21.311
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and, you know, KC still got it, KC can sing his butt off.

41:21.432 --> 41:41.118
[SPEAKER_04]: I think Joe Joe was lip syncing his parts, um, because, you know, they both had some pretty severe health issues, um, but, you know, KC brought it and, you know, even like, you know, SWV was a, they were fantastic, um, and even Drew Hill, there was like eight dudes out there saying they was Drew Hill, but, you know, it was still good.

41:42.019 --> 41:43.761
[SPEAKER_04]: Cisco was still doing cartwheels.

41:43.910 --> 41:44.571
[SPEAKER_00]: No, man.

41:45.272 --> 41:46.734
[SPEAKER_00]: Did he do song song?

41:46.934 --> 41:47.815
[SPEAKER_00]: He did song song.

41:47.835 --> 41:48.896
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course he had to.

41:49.377 --> 41:49.597
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

41:51.520 --> 41:52.441
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the till air.

41:52.501 --> 42:00.011
[SPEAKER_00]: When I went to see a new edition the last time where I had this really, really good front row seats, Joe to see was on the thing.

42:01.152 --> 42:05.998
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that they were going to be right before new edition and they open.

42:06.079 --> 42:06.960
[SPEAKER_00]: So I missed them.

42:07.520 --> 42:11.065
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was Charlie.

42:11.298 --> 42:12.480
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, all right.

42:12.500 --> 42:17.246
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, all right, Uncle Charlie's fine, but I would have rather seen Joe seen Joe to see.

42:17.686 --> 42:17.807
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

42:17.827 --> 42:19.849
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get back to this.

42:19.929 --> 42:26.678
[SPEAKER_00]: So the album, what's the 411 the title?

42:27.920 --> 42:29.242
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't know.

42:29.262 --> 42:33.347
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is our internet researcher who I don't know that I've ever heard this story.

42:33.407 --> 42:34.909
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you have, but

42:35.395 --> 42:40.140
[SPEAKER_00]: The title came from Mary's briefstint as a directory assistance operator.

42:40.360 --> 42:43.964
[SPEAKER_00]: It was her way of saying she had the info on what was real.

42:45.526 --> 42:48.509
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, 401 was the information number.

42:48.569 --> 42:49.230
[SPEAKER_04]: It might still be.

42:49.250 --> 42:49.711
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure.

42:49.751 --> 42:53.214
[SPEAKER_04]: Can you actually call that number still you think?

42:53.395 --> 42:53.855
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

42:53.875 --> 42:55.036
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

42:56.077 --> 43:02.925
[SPEAKER_00]: If there was an active 401 one line, I would answer the phone and go, hello, and then it asked me a question.

43:02.965 --> 43:04.947
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say Google it and hang out.

43:07.188 --> 43:07.989
[SPEAKER_03]: seriously.

43:11.855 --> 43:35.811
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so supposedly, uh, you know, Mary had a little bit of like, I don't know if it was what we would currently call imposter syndrome, but, you know, the idea of her being famous like all of a sudden was, uh, you know, pretty

43:38.221 --> 43:52.575
[SPEAKER_00]: the album is kind of like her own survival kit, and she liked the idea of it giving a voice to the young girls who didn't see themselves and like that version of R&B that Andre Herrell was like, this is the R&B that I know.

43:52.976 --> 43:53.698
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

43:53.780 --> 44:04.153
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, you know, Mary, at Mary, he's been very open about the struggles that she faced, not just grown up at, you know, in the early days of her career.

44:04.934 --> 44:14.226
[SPEAKER_04]: She just did it in a few, and I wish I remember what the series just called, but there's this dude, he used to host Axis Hollywood, Scott's something or other.

44:14.246 --> 44:18.471
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to say it's Scott Brown, I might not be right there.

44:18.451 --> 44:26.723
[SPEAKER_04]: But he does this series where like he invites artists over to his house and you know, they do like a long interview like he did an episode with Regina King.

44:28.166 --> 44:30.149
[SPEAKER_04]: He did one with Kamala Harris.

44:30.189 --> 44:32.372
[SPEAKER_04]: He's done like various, you know, people.

44:32.813 --> 44:41.786
[SPEAKER_04]: And the most recent one at the time of us recording this was with Mary and you know, she spoke honestly about how like in her early days, she was a terror.

44:42.527 --> 44:45.792
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think some of it, like it's like,

44:45.974 --> 44:52.356
[SPEAKER_04]: going to play like amateur psychologists here, you know, some of it is insecurity like

44:52.505 --> 45:17.702
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm from the projects, I don't, I'm operating in this world where like people are like super happy to meet me and you know, or where I have like some pull and some power and some of it is the entitlement that comes with being a famous person being a celebrity and when you put that insecurity and that entitlement together like you just, you know, it can create this very weird thing.

45:17.682 --> 45:28.321
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so, you know, it's Torrey, who I fucking hate did this, like he has this web series now.

45:29.222 --> 45:36.315
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you know, and I think even he talks about Mary J. Blige and her early days just being like, you know.

45:36.397 --> 45:41.884
[SPEAKER_04]: the way you hear about artists like Nicky and you know some of the younger art and Nicky's not young.

45:42.865 --> 45:47.571
[SPEAKER_04]: The way you hear about some younger artists now being terrors like Mary J was that fact then.

45:48.752 --> 45:49.193
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

45:51.356 --> 45:55.821
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reception of the album I remember when this album came out.

45:56.802 --> 45:58.084
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people

45:58.182 --> 46:01.606
[SPEAKER_00]: in certain places that you wouldn't expect to like it.

46:01.706 --> 46:02.587
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they liked it.

46:03.729 --> 46:03.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

46:04.590 --> 46:17.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Rolling stone, uh, liked it, praised the gritty undertone and realism of the album, entertainment weekly, highlighted her powerful soulful voice.

46:17.385 --> 46:22.030
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you remember about the critical reception at that time of this album?

46:22.010 --> 46:22.931
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know good.

46:22.951 --> 46:25.154
[SPEAKER_04]: I remember much about the critical reception.

46:25.214 --> 46:25.675
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know good.

46:25.695 --> 46:31.142
[SPEAKER_04]: I was necessarily reading record reviews very much around that time.

46:31.943 --> 46:35.207
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, look, I was living in Brooklyn.

46:35.968 --> 46:43.478
[SPEAKER_04]: I was a senior in high school when this album was popular and like in the hood.

46:43.930 --> 46:57.393
[SPEAKER_04]: everybody was messing with Mary like in the New York City like Mary J. Blodge was kind of like the queen from jump like you could not you couldn't walk out your house and not here like real love coming out of a car or something like that.

46:58.054 --> 47:06.529
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think you know Mary always kind of had New York City on lock um and you know I think because she was

47:07.522 --> 47:11.048
[SPEAKER_04]: because there had not been anybody like her previously.

47:11.068 --> 47:15.556
[SPEAKER_04]: I think, you know, she was interesting to a lot of critics.

47:17.078 --> 47:24.251
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, again, just because there was no, like what was the precedent before Mary, TLC was maybe the closest thing we had.

47:24.751 --> 47:26.895
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was a couple of months before Mary came out.

47:27.015 --> 47:29.700
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there was still a difference.

47:29.780 --> 47:31.703
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a huge difference.

47:31.763 --> 47:32.685
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you difference?

47:32.665 --> 47:34.207
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so yeah, man.

47:34.407 --> 47:38.152
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think, um, it was just so unique and so novel.

47:38.933 --> 47:41.456
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, that people were just like, holy crap.

47:41.476 --> 47:42.117
[SPEAKER_04]: What is this?

47:44.620 --> 47:57.897
[SPEAKER_00]: I just remember thinking that I, I was trying to figure out because it's very obvious to me, that Mary J. Blige was attractive.

47:58.467 --> 48:20.509
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, but but they hit her was still is and still is, but but they hit her behind the the street like the what we just talked about with puffed atty and I always wondered if the hook to her as an artist was should kind of kick your ass if you like mess with her kind of thing right.

48:21.552 --> 48:29.264
[SPEAKER_00]: But underneath that, I was like, there's like this very talented artist in this really, really attractive person.

48:29.464 --> 48:35.553
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just, I was always like the positioning and like, was it to take advantage of where hip hop was.

48:35.613 --> 48:39.519
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of it that I'm sure it was about who she was.

48:39.539 --> 48:41.282
[SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't going to be comfortable.

48:41.262 --> 48:49.450
[SPEAKER_00]: In the, you know, in a certain style yet, but she would, you know, soon thereafter, she would become a little bit more of that style of art.

48:49.470 --> 49:07.489
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was out that the whole positioning and the marketing and the styling of her, I always found so interesting back then because I was like am I supposed to think She's attractive or am I supposed to think she's a homie like what what is like what was the message to me as a young person listening to her music

49:07.587 --> 49:10.332
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think the answer to that, all of that is yes.

49:10.572 --> 49:27.283
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, like if you look at the video for real love, there's different scenes in the video and, you know, in parts of the video, she's wearing like baggies and she's got like, you know, the baseball cap backwards and she's, you know, she's popping and she looks,

49:28.040 --> 49:47.652
[SPEAKER_04]: Tom Boyish but still feminine and then you know other parts of the video like where she's dancing like she's wearing like tight shorts and, you know, somewhat revealing but not like overtly revealing clothing like she's still very much like a pretty girl, but

49:49.252 --> 49:56.954
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, not in the way where she's like super duper showing off her body or, you know, she's still got kind of like a mystery to her.

49:57.376 --> 50:00.645
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think it was they're trying to kind of like play all sides, right?

50:01.064 --> 50:18.007
[SPEAKER_04]: position her as someone who is sexy, but also somebody who can like hang with you in the boys and as somebody who could punch you in the face, like there is, you know, kind of trying to mix all of that together and just, you know, reveal like someone who is multilayered in that respect.

50:18.488 --> 50:26.599
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in the comparison that you made with TLC, when TLC came out, I think we were

50:27.558 --> 50:31.205
[SPEAKER_00]: fun and silly like that was kind of like a gimmick right.

50:31.225 --> 50:34.171
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't find Mary to be silly.

50:34.211 --> 50:36.295
[SPEAKER_04]: There was nothing serious.

50:36.555 --> 50:40.403
[SPEAKER_04]: There was and still is nothing fun and still here about Mary J.

50:40.423 --> 50:42.006
[SPEAKER_04]: Black.

50:42.374 --> 50:45.680
[SPEAKER_00]: That she will, she does, she does some songs.

50:45.760 --> 50:50.449
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe like in her auntiness now, she like imitates her little like dance moves and stuff.

50:50.469 --> 50:51.211
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly.

50:51.231 --> 50:56.801
[SPEAKER_04]: She can, she's now able to make fun of herself a little bit, but there is this thing going around the internet right now.

50:57.342 --> 51:01.490
[SPEAKER_04]: She did a, she did a fast food commercial years ago.

51:01.510 --> 51:03.454
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it was Burger King.

51:03.434 --> 51:20.903
[SPEAKER_04]: and she got roasted for it because it's playing in the stereo types a little bit right right and she has distance herself so far from that and I've been seeing on socials now people are like come on Mary like you took the bag

51:20.883 --> 51:50.417
[SPEAKER_04]: you made a jingle about some chicken like it's cool like lean into it have a laugh like relax it's fine it's cool and she takes she gets very defensive about yet so i don't know that she's fully leaned into her humor or silliness yet okay uh it went number six on the billboard 200 number one on the R&B and hip hop chart uh you remind me was one on the R&B chart

51:50.465 --> 51:51.867
[SPEAKER_00]: one on R&B.

51:53.050 --> 51:55.334
[SPEAKER_00]: She received no Grammy nominations for this album.

51:55.895 --> 52:01.144
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, the Grammy Awards weren't messing with like, you know what they had.

52:01.164 --> 52:02.166
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't know what to do.

52:02.767 --> 52:03.969
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know what to do.

52:04.470 --> 52:04.710
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

52:04.911 --> 52:07.335
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, old head R&B was still very much.

52:08.257 --> 52:10.701
[SPEAKER_04]: What the Grammy Awards were messing with that time.

52:10.951 --> 52:12.553
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so now let's reflect.

52:12.613 --> 52:15.397
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll do our Grammys Redux here.

52:15.417 --> 52:22.606
[SPEAKER_00]: 1993 Grammys for the best female R&B vocal performance.

52:24.749 --> 52:28.254
[SPEAKER_00]: The nominees, Shaka Khan, the woman I am.

52:28.294 --> 52:31.138
[SPEAKER_00]: O'Lita Adams, don't let the sun go down on me.

52:31.298 --> 52:32.700
[SPEAKER_00]: Whitney Houston, I belong to you.

52:33.381 --> 52:37.566
[SPEAKER_00]: Shenees, I love your smile and Vanessa Williams, the comfort zone.

52:38.710 --> 52:44.221
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what's the form on one is better than any of those my parents?

52:45.003 --> 52:48.570
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, not to say any of them are bad.

52:48.650 --> 52:59.031
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's just very indicative of what Granny people were nominating at that time, like they didn't necessarily have their air to the streets.

52:59.011 --> 53:03.058
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, it's still very much in the mold of like classic soul music.

53:03.239 --> 53:04.601
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I love me some shock of con.

53:06.104 --> 53:08.669
[SPEAKER_04]: So that to me is like the only thing that would maybe hold a candle.

53:09.390 --> 53:11.053
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know one, of course.

53:11.694 --> 53:17.745
[SPEAKER_00]: But the thing that's so interesting about it is even, you know, we talked about they would know what to do with Mary.

53:18.620 --> 53:24.408
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't even really know what to do with Chen Shanese because that song was giant.

53:25.190 --> 53:28.254
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel like I heard that song everywhere on the radio that year.

53:28.775 --> 53:41.413
[SPEAKER_04]: I, you know, I've come around on I love your smile in the last few years, but at that period, like 91, 92, like when that song was popular, I hated that goddamn song because it was just everywhere.

53:41.754 --> 53:43.176
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was so,

53:43.561 --> 53:53.583
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I wonder what Shiny's really thinks about that so I'm now because that's only so cheerful and so like It's like it's like just a little too much sugar.

53:53.603 --> 53:59.376
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you do you think that they did the remix where she does a little bit of a rap?

53:59.693 --> 54:03.462
[SPEAKER_00]: to urbanize it a little bit, is that the reason for that remix?

54:03.482 --> 54:13.245
[SPEAKER_04]: Probably, I mean, that song is pretty poppy and, you know, shout out to the boys, the down my heart, boys, who I think produced that remix.

54:13.746 --> 54:14.468
[SPEAKER_02]: Love those songs.

54:14.829 --> 54:16.673
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

54:16.788 --> 54:28.594
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, also shout out to the boys because I think they're still like work like they were on that new kids come back album like they they, you know, just kind of went underground and they've been doing stuff behind the scenes.

54:29.095 --> 54:32.923
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I think they remixed that song to give Chinese a little bit of street cred.

54:33.916 --> 54:40.304
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, uh, the, I don't know if it was the follow-up to that, but there's that saving forever for you.

54:40.844 --> 54:41.064
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

54:41.145 --> 54:42.046
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know 2-1-0 song.

54:42.126 --> 54:42.546
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

54:42.646 --> 54:46.171
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's literally, I'm really ill tonight, though, 2-1-0 soundtrack.

54:46.211 --> 54:46.431
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

54:46.571 --> 54:49.134
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just like, I'm watching 9-0-2-1-0.

54:50.035 --> 55:00.868
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Brian Austin Greens in this video, and they're, they're not quite love interest, but there's like some flirtation going on, and she locks, she locks him in the DJ booth.

55:00.848 --> 55:19.853
[SPEAKER_04]: uh... but like shunny's kind of a big deal in that time for a free period of time shunny's ex you know we always talk about the uh... on that note podcast uh... which i think shunny's is on a recent episode but you know we also got to get you know Bryan Austin Green had had some of the jungle fever back in the day

55:19.833 --> 55:32.813
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he said that he couldn't really even talk about it back then like, you know, he did like it like not that it was him necessarily, but it was the women that he was with didn't want him to talk about it as well.

55:32.962 --> 55:37.787
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, the thing that I remember reading recently is that he was dating to Sheen Arnold.

55:38.628 --> 55:47.699
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and, you know, if Tashina had come out at the height of Martin's success, and been like, I'm dating his dude like there would have been some some issues.

55:48.620 --> 55:57.670
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't mama pain with a foot of a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

55:58.747 --> 56:00.349
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that what a couple.

56:00.409 --> 56:01.190
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy cow.

56:01.510 --> 56:01.751
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

56:02.471 --> 56:10.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you admit like Tashina Arnold is like the truth to Like good rhinocin greens a little too light in the behind.

56:10.341 --> 56:10.661
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.

56:10.942 --> 56:11.042
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

56:11.062 --> 56:11.843
[SPEAKER_00]: Tashina Arnold.

56:12.103 --> 56:12.644
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.

56:12.784 --> 56:15.067
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe maybe Tashina maybe maybe Brian Austin.

56:15.087 --> 56:17.169
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean Brian also remade a wrap record.

56:17.189 --> 56:17.450
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

56:17.510 --> 56:17.730
[SPEAKER_00]: True.

56:17.830 --> 56:20.493
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's a little more thugdap than we thought.

56:20.914 --> 56:21.454
[SPEAKER_00]: What was it?

56:21.514 --> 56:23.317
[SPEAKER_00]: What one shop carnival?

56:23.337 --> 56:25.439
[SPEAKER_00]: One stop stop carnival was here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wild.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's wrap this thing up here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I mentioned that there was that track, the opening track, where they leave voice mails.

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[SPEAKER_00]: On the remix album, which comes out the following year, Martin Lawrence leaves a voice mail.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And he does a couple of things from his, you know, his Martin stuff and he tells her, you know, I forget she needs to, I forget he asks her to for something and then he goes, and last thing, you can't call nobody, like as if she's two, you know, two popular for him now.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And like he did the whole thing and I was like, well, this is like 1993 Martin, like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and, uh, and yeah, so real love famously samples, uh, audio Tuesday's top villain.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and folks thought maybe a little too hip-hop for an R&B song.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's awesome.

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's, I mean, real love is such a classic.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, one of sort of the defining records of the 90s.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And she was

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[SPEAKER_04]: uh... you know just the idea of how can you cover shotgun and supposedly puffed aty had her lean into it to give it like that hip hop flavor that street flavor of that song and i'd be another good thing for puffed aty here yeah i vaguely remember in interview with shotgun where she said she hates that remake of the song uh... shotgun notoriously does not give a f interviews and i think she

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[SPEAKER_04]: Her and Mary might not have started on the best of terms and they've collaborated since, um, you know, Mary has been very vocal about Shaka Khan is like her vocal idol, um, but, you know, I don't think they necessarily got off on the best foot with that cover and to be honest with you, sweet thing is the ones on that album that I skit really, yeah, just because you don't think it holds a candle, yeah, I think the original is a million times better.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we talked about this with Lauren Hill, and you had one of our early episodes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Killing me softly, the way Lauren and Wycliffe did it, way different, obviously.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: but you don't see Mary's version as different enough.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think it's very similar, like it's kind of karaoke-ish.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Almost.

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[SPEAKER_04]: If she had done something really different, then maybe I would have had, I would have different feelings about it, but it really does just kind of feel like they threw some hard drums behind the original version and were just like, okay, here's a remake.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, let's get to our no skips rating here for what's a four one one.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, for me, it's a solid like eight.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was I was going seven and a half.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Myself.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, one of the things we've mentioned is with these albums from the late 80s, early 90s, they're not super long.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they cut the fat already on these really good albums.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's a strong,

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[SPEAKER_04]: It's true.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, again, I really only skip that one song.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And this, I mean, you can program the skits out.

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[SPEAKER_04]: And to be perfectly honest with you, I don't ever need to hear Mary J. Blive's raping, even though she's not a terrible rapper.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Excuse me, that last the title track, which is to do what we're grandpa from brand newbie and got a ton of radio play in New York.

01:00:05.381 --> 01:00:06.562
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember back in the day.

01:00:07.283 --> 01:00:12.010
[SPEAKER_04]: And I just, I don't need to hear Mary J. Blive's rap, Brian, and I mean,

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[SPEAKER_04]: You know, not to say she's a bad rapper.

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[SPEAKER_04]: I actually don't think she is, but seeing is her strong point.

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[SPEAKER_00]: What about her version of, uh, hated or love it?

01:00:22.711 --> 01:00:23.232
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's right.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Well, she's singing.

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[SPEAKER_04]: She's not really rapping.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you know, I'll take that.

01:00:30.603 --> 01:00:34.967
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's it for 1992, Mary J. Blige, what's 411?

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back later this week with our top five, going over our favorite Mary tracks.

01:00:42.695 --> 01:00:47.099
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm actually interested in how close we come on this one.

01:00:47.759 --> 01:00:49.281
[SPEAKER_00]: This one is really difficult.

01:00:50.022 --> 01:00:56.308
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna guess not that close just because, but yeah, still intrigued.

01:00:56.328 --> 01:00:58.770
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause I'm like my top two,

01:00:59.223 --> 01:01:08.114
[SPEAKER_00]: very easy and I three through five were like okay I need to figure this thing out but my top two are very easy and they're both remixes.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Interest actually no one is a remix one is a remix.

01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:13.441
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay there's one remix on my list.

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[SPEAKER_00]: All right all right that is it from here.

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[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back