Wu-Tang Clan's $60K Deal That Built 9 Solo Careers (Enter the Wu-Tang: 36 Chambers)

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Mike, we are back with 50 for 50 in this time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not biggie, but it's a biggie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's Wu Tang.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And the hard part about doing this show really doing this kind of show for the Wu is that they just have so many people who you need to talk about and you actually have to have conversations about because together, and this is kind of the thing that we mentioned with new addition, like together as a unit,

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[SPEAKER_01]: their Hall of Famers and then separately as solo stars and then as we'll talk about more so in our top five than in this episode, but they've a lot of these guys have gone on to do big, big things in entertainment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So just an incredible story of a bunch of dudes who got together in the early 90s, some of them related, but to create

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[SPEAKER_01]: the entity that is the Wu Teng clan.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So before we get to our 1993 year in music, I'm interested to know when they would have came on your radar.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I was thinking about this and actually

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[SPEAKER_00]: restart.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, Rizza and Jizza would have come onto my radar before we ten clan existed.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Because Rizza had a record as Prince Rakeen, Jizza had an album out as the genius.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember seeing videos for both of those projects on like our local video show, video music box, you know, all that kind of stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So they weren't.

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[SPEAKER_00]: they weren't like national records, but they were, you know, in New York City like they kind of made a little bit of noise.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, Riza and Jizza before they were Rizza and Jizza were, you know, you know, had like one or two records out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then, like, the way protecting that commitment, those two songs like built up is that they were out,

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[SPEAKER_00]: almost a year before like they blew up nationally, so I feel like they came out maybe around like the end of 1992.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, my best friend growing up Maurice was, you know, full on hip-hop head.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And,

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[SPEAKER_00]: was kind of frapping along to those records before, you know, months before the rest of New York City kind of caught on.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I would say like the first time I'd heard it by Wu Tang was very specifically met with men and would have been like late 92 or early 93.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like I again, this is one of those groups that is a little I come to them a little bit later and I want to say it was actually that the method man song so I was really confused when I started to learn about Wu Teng because I was like, why did they have a song called method man and there's a guy called method man.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I was like kind of going like, huh, this is entering, but you know, we had

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[SPEAKER_01]: the magazines back then where if you did want to do some research, you just go buy a hip-hop magazine and you know you could even find someone who maybe had a subscription to the source to kind of see when they first are talking about these guys, but yeah just just like

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[SPEAKER_01]: They were, I think, what's the saying about kind of the sum of their parts and such?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think the Wu Tang as a group, there's some of their parts as greater than the whole.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the Wu Tang as a group is a giant group.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's almost like when you think about the individual artists, it's kind of bigger than the whole thing.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, as with hip hop, like, they're as a group.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how much Wu Tang music do you play outside of the first two albums?

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[SPEAKER_00]: It's outside of the first album, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Very little.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's maybe like, they put out what?

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[SPEAKER_00]: Five or maybe four or five albums outside of the first one.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think from those other four or five albums, there's maybe one album's worth of stuff that I still listen to.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember liking Iron Flag,

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if I bought the W and then after that, I was like, oh, they have more stuff than that, like I didn't even really know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We'll circle back to them and the album that we're going to talk about, enter to 36 chambers.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're also going to dig into the solo careers, because I just think that's such an important story about how entrepreneurial

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[SPEAKER_01]: uh, understanding their worth and their value in this burgeoning medium that is hip-hop music being able to sell yourself and market yourself because hip-hop existed, but it doesn't really the commercialness of hip-hop is like starting to jump off and I think these guys notice that like or, you know, very smartly, notice that.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, 1993 though, let's let's take a look at

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[SPEAKER_01]: January the 8th, the U.S.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Postal Service issues an Elvis stamp.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The design was voted on in February of 1992.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You remember when, like, celebrity stamps were a thing?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would ask if they're still a thing, but I can't remember the last time I meal the letter.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I will send my dad something or, you know, I will still buy stuff off eBay so you still see postage and you get mail in that way, but yeah, like right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember my mom having to go to the supermarket like every other week to buy a book of stamps to mail out all of the bills that she had to mail out when I was growing.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Or even more frequently than that, you know.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like around that time, I would have been milling up like college applications and stuff like that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it was like, go to this camp every week and buy a book of stamps.

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[SPEAKER_01]: January the night, the bodyguard original soundtrack album becomes the first album in history since the Neilson Sound scan introduced a computerized sales monitoring system to sell over 1 million copies in one week.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, we talked about Whitney and the magnitude of that soundtrack and I will always love you and, you know, it's, yeah, I mean a million copies a week is certainly nothing this music, even now.

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[SPEAKER_01]: January 31, Michael Jackson plays the half-time show of Super Bowl 27.

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[SPEAKER_01]: The performance is a rating success and begins a trend of the NFL signing big name acts to play at the Super Bowl in order to increase the spectacle and hype surrounding the game.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I imagine you remember this half-time show more so than you remember the game.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't remember any, unless the Giants won the Super Bowl, I don't remember the games.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I do remember the halftime show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was certainly the first time that I deliberately watched a Super Bowl halftime show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason the NFL did that.

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[SPEAKER_00]: is because the year before Fox had programmed like all original programming to run during half time of the game and you know there was a live episode of InLiving Color like there was all this stuff and that took a large amount of viewership away so you know they needed something to kind of strike back and you know you strike back with the biggest star in the world.

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[SPEAKER_01]: because they played, it was the first of two in a row matchups between those two teams when I was growing up.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Was my man, what's his name?

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[SPEAKER_00]: The quarterback for the bills, Jim Kelly.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was Jim Kelly, the quarterback.

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[SPEAKER_01]: All right, both because this was in the midst of the bills going to Super Bowl for three times.

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[SPEAKER_00]: In times and long seeing every time, yep, okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, my Niners were in the Super Bowl often around this time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, I remember some of the halftime shows.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And there were like the halftime shows back then were super gimmicky.

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[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, the new kids performed on one of these shows.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't remember if it was before after MJ, it was before.

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[SPEAKER_00]: It would have been like 91.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So, um,

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[SPEAKER_01]: The NFL was doing a bunch of different things, but one of them I remember is they did a gimmick where if you would go to whichever brand of potato chips or whatever, you could just buy a bag and you get these 3D glasses.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then once the game goes to halftime, you can put the 3D glasses on and see some type of, you know, halftime thing of a jig.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember it working very well and, you know, I don't know how well 3D technology just plays on a normal television.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember it being a pretty big dud, but it was kind of, it was a gimmick and we're like, oh, we got to see what it looks like and yeah, it wasn't.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't remember that at all.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, alright, so.

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[SPEAKER_01]: February the 10th, Oprah Winfrey interviews Michael Jackson during US television prime time special becomes the most watch interview and television history and is Jackson's first in 14 years.

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[SPEAKER_00]: There's lots of Michael stuff going on in 1993 was 1993 started off good and ended not so good from Michael Jackson.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: February 24th, the 35th annual Grammys presented in Los Angeles and hosted by Gary Shandling, Eric Clapton wins six awards out of nine nominations.

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[SPEAKER_01]: March six, I will always love you post it's 14th week at number one in the US.

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[SPEAKER_01]: April 12th, I added this for us.

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[SPEAKER_01]: April 12th,

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[SPEAKER_01]: Lisa.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I was that late.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So when what what year's Zoe born 88.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, maybe 89.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Lisa is just Lisa had one of the one of the kind of careers where and now Lisa I'm sure is not hurting Lisa has done very well for herself.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But she had one of those careers where if we ran it back to 1985, I would

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[SPEAKER_01]: coming out of the Cosby show.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about one of the biggest stars in entertainment.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like she was so, she was so attractive, she was so charming, she was so charismatic, she was so emotionally like, you just felt things for her.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then lots of different things happened where you just like, hey, what happened to Lisa Bonet?

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think, I think,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Lisa's career path was very intentional on her part.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think she caught a whiff at a bullshit super early and was like me and not.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like particularly since the 90s, she's been really, really intentional about the things that she does and she still acts from time to time, she'll pop up on stuff.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember she was on drunk history, which, you know, I used to love that show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like she kind of just does her own thing and like this super low key, you very under the radar.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She could have had a bigger career, but I don't really think she wanted to.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that she doesn't call him Mr. Cosby, like everybody else does.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm pretty sure in private, she calls him a few things.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember when she was an enemy of the state with Will Smith?

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[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, she played his wife.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, no, we're going to get a pretty sweater.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember what character she played, but I remember going like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: that's one of my favorite people of all time in this movie.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and I love this fact that I think I don't think.

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[SPEAKER_00]: The rumors that Lenny cheated on Lisa and was kind of messing around with all these chicks, like blah, blah, blah, blah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Which, you know, it's kind of like the Eric Beneh how we very seriously talk about Lisa's about to just on that line.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But Lisa and Lenny are friends to this day, so shout out to like mature adults who understand how to like candle relationships.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And Lisa was also the punchline to one of my favorite Cole Brown jokes from Martin when Cole said the only friend she knows is Lisa Boney.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Shout out.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Cockroach.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So in May, May 15, Janet Jackson.

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[SPEAKER_01]: That's the way love goes.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Reach number one on the Billboard 100 spends eight consecutive weeks at the top spot.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then three days later, she releases Janet, it becomes her third consecutive album today, but number one, becoming the first album by female artists to debut at number one in the sounds can era also becomes the highest first week album sales by female artists in history at the time selling 350,000 copies.

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[SPEAKER_00]: that album was a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: She was a big deal.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the way love goes was, you know, a very different Janet Jackson record from what we were expecting at the time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know,

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[SPEAKER_00]: that spring in summer.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I think everybody was just kind of like vibing out to Janet and put what it just just came out that year too.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, sort of multimedia Janet happening.

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[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, to show you how we maneuvered some albums in this time frame.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there are biggies in this year that we were just like, oh, we got to do the woo, 1993.

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[SPEAKER_00]: So amazing records, you know, out.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So here are some of the albums that that we pushed.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Midnight Marauders, we covered it with low-in theory.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Janet, we covered when we did our Janet at control with control.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But here are some other albums that we didn't actually cover that would have been perfect for 1993.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Doggy style, sons of soul, Tony, Tony, Tony.

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[SPEAKER_01]: for the cool and new baby face.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And an album that you just recently bought on vinyl, Tevin Campbell, I'm ready.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I sort of all fit during this time for us to do a show.

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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't know the Tevin, we gotta squeeze Tevin in some way.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how we're gonna do that, but we should.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's it's kind of interesting because no drain, no Snoop on any of our rundowns.

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[SPEAKER_01]: There was a block.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So we did talk a little bit about that time for him, but I think it is, I think for me, it is a, I think now I get it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: People are going to, you know, people love.

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[SPEAKER_01]: the chronic as as they should.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when doggy style came out, I was just like, oh my gosh.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the style of wrapping and the lyricism on those albums just has aged worse than like a lot of hip-hop has.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why I don't really mess with those albums as much these days.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Snoop, I don't mess with Snoop these days for a variety of reasons.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been a hard place to come to, as I've grown listening to those albums, which I loved so much as like a 17, 18-year-old.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And then being like, I can't, you know, like India I'll rewrite now to sort of change to top of a little bit as catchin' a lot of heat because there's some record that's out that super popular and India I'll re-was like how, like,

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[SPEAKER_00]: be reflective of like the type of person you want to be like we're just throwing all this negative stuff in the air and not thinking about the fact that people do like

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[SPEAKER_00]: art should exist without censorship, right?

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[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is that the art that we consume really is, you know, the stuff that we identify with.

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[SPEAKER_00]: And it also is, whether it's, you know, music or movies or video games informs a lot of the way that we act in light.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, if you want to live a more positive life, you've got to toss some of the negativity out and, you know, chronic and doggy style from like the violence perspective from misogyny perspective, like that should just can't like sit in my orbit right now because it's not, it's all negative.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And not to give them the benefit of the doubt here, but when you're young,

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[SPEAKER_01]: When you are trying to sell a product, and you're leaning into certain trends, you're kind of in the place and time.

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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't really think

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[SPEAKER_01]: too far ahead, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure when Dr. Dre's making that out, he's not thinking about where the world is in 20 years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: He's thinking about where his kind of current life was or what had worked for him in the past or what partying he's doing and how his homies are talking and that's kind of what he's thinking about at that time.

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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think Dre was always about the bag and, you know, um,

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[SPEAKER_00]: Drey and NWA got their popularity and have made their money off of the exploitation of black people and, you know, I wish more black folks recognize the fact that, you know, a lot of

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[SPEAKER_00]: The lyrical content of these songs is it's not reality, like it's sort of taking this like outsized version of reality and telling you that it's reality is just like, you know, it's, again, those are great albums.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not gonna take anything away from the fact that I used to bump at hell out of those records.

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[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, as a 50 year old intelligent,

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[SPEAKER_00]: person who sees kind of the state of the world and feels like that music is at somewhat responsible for it.

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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just I can't mess with that stuff anymore.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I had a heart to stick to it back then.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I understood why it was popular.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know necessarily what it said, but I'm a hypocrite in that way too, because a lot of pox music.

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[SPEAKER_01]: followed those, but what would Pock fans always excuse?

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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's like two sides of Pock.

19:11.522 --> 19:17.188
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this version, and then there's this other version of Pock, and that's what you would excuse him.

19:18.169 --> 19:25.816
[SPEAKER_01]: Drey and Snoop didn't really have those other sides, so maybe, you know, maybe I was a little bit harder on them, but I get that.

19:25.856 --> 19:29.480
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a hypocrite for if I like two Pock, and then he's doing same stuff.

19:30.142 --> 19:30.362
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

19:30.682 --> 19:34.564
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think I don't, I don't know if I necessarily call it hypocritical.

19:34.604 --> 19:37.765
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is, you know, there's certainly nuance there.

19:38.185 --> 19:50.170
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, if I, I mean, I'm more talking about right now, um, I think there's some stuff in there, literally that's kind of not great, um, like so and just so and people's buttholes.

19:51.212 --> 19:55.318
[SPEAKER_00]: right, but you know, that is so clearly fantasy, right?

19:56.299 --> 20:03.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's also like it happened like well, how would you cap on somebody back in the day and take it to like a level that no one could top you with.

20:03.309 --> 20:05.792
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of what they're going for, but yeah, 1993.

20:07.014 --> 20:08.055
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's different.

20:08.075 --> 20:10.718
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's like, you know, it's like talking about J, right?

20:11.059 --> 20:21.590
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, there's a lot of J records where I'm kind of like, I can't really get behind this anymore, but J always was like, this is the shit I did.

20:21.810 --> 20:23.572
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the consequence of what I did.

20:23.592 --> 20:26.015
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm trying to like draw a line and tell a story here.

20:26.475 --> 20:28.398
[SPEAKER_00]: Where does I think with Dre and Snoop?

20:29.580 --> 20:33.722
[SPEAKER_00]: There's never been like a, there's never been a butt or like an end.

20:33.842 --> 20:37.764
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always just been like, thanks against the gangsta bitches, bitches, bitches.

20:37.804 --> 20:41.826
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, all that shit.

20:42.146 --> 20:44.427
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I do think that there is a difference.

20:46.308 --> 20:47.869
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, move it on.

20:49.529 --> 20:54.532
[SPEAKER_01]: One of our, one of your faves, and we're going to have a pretty lengthy episode about him upcoming too.

20:55.625 --> 21:01.929
[SPEAKER_01]: June 7 on his 35th birthday, Prince announces that he's changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol.

21:02.469 --> 21:08.033
[SPEAKER_01]: This led to him being called the artist formerly known as Prince until 2000.

21:09.093 --> 21:09.594
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, man.

21:10.774 --> 21:12.916
[SPEAKER_01]: What a weird pop culture moment that was.

21:13.736 --> 21:16.318
[SPEAKER_00]: That I don't understand it.

21:18.259 --> 21:21.321
[SPEAKER_00]: It was super weird then, and it's still pretty weird now.

21:22.166 --> 21:22.446
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

21:23.026 --> 21:24.767
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is.

21:25.127 --> 21:37.310
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could say in a sense, it was kind of a head of his time in why he was to that.

21:37.910 --> 21:45.312
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, everything is about contract and labels and you name on and that coins do you trying to kind of get around that.

21:45.392 --> 21:45.972
[SPEAKER_01]: But it

21:46.722 --> 21:53.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it did make people think like, okay, it did, I don't know, we're just like, we know that you're eccentric, but now you're kind of weird.

21:53.885 --> 21:54.105
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

21:54.546 --> 21:55.626
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, then it's funny.

21:56.026 --> 22:11.974
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that I think about when you mentioned like the main change of the symbol, there was an episode of Fresh Prince where Ashley brings in like a date to meet Uncle Phil and to do like pulls out a business card and he's like, my name is this.

22:13.006 --> 22:17.109
[SPEAKER_00]: And Uncle Phil is like, hey, I'm not, I'm not going to explain it properly.

22:17.129 --> 22:18.169
[SPEAKER_00]: Go look it up on YouTube.

22:18.630 --> 22:25.314
[SPEAKER_00]: But basically, like, Uncle Phil kind of like flexes on the kid and the kid screams and runs out of the house.

22:25.854 --> 22:29.117
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like playing on the Prince as a symbol thing.

22:29.697 --> 22:29.777
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

22:32.413 --> 22:36.837
[SPEAKER_01]: The fresh prince was a good capture of what was happening in pop culture at the time.

22:37.277 --> 22:38.598
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

22:38.678 --> 22:44.403
[SPEAKER_01]: July 17th, Guns and Rose's play, the final gig of their use, your illusion tour.

22:44.443 --> 22:48.667
[SPEAKER_01]: This will be the last time they play together on stage until 2016.

22:51.887 --> 23:06.928
[SPEAKER_01]: August 24th, we're back to MJ here news breaks about news breaks of the public that Michael Jackson is being investigated on allegations of chat mall station September 2nd Snoop Dogg and his bodyguard are charged with.

23:07.489 --> 23:12.196
[SPEAKER_01]: the August 25th murder of a 20 year old gang member in a drive by shooting.

23:12.256 --> 23:20.968
[SPEAKER_01]: They are cleared of the charges in 1996, which leads to a Snoop Dogg song called Murder was the case.

23:21.469 --> 23:21.910
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

23:24.780 --> 23:38.827
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that is like, you know, we had those Michael Jackson snoop stories kind of back to back, but having a song called Murder was the case that they gave me and playing yourself as the victim while there's a dead kid is kind of

23:39.798 --> 23:53.655
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, they're there's some hubris there, but it's also a play out of like the MJ book, which is, you know, whenever you have like a public frustration, you kind of air it out through your music at the same time.

23:54.236 --> 23:54.476
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

23:55.017 --> 23:57.800
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought I thought them being back to back was was pretty interesting.

23:59.091 --> 24:08.935
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, September 14th, they said a lawsuit is filed against MJ by 13-year-old Jordan Chandler and his parents accused in the singer of sexually abusing the boy over the course of their friendship.

24:09.575 --> 24:24.822
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm slow watching that Michael Jackson documentary on Netflix and so far and I'm only an episode one just because that's how slow I'm watching it and it's been out there

24:28.202 --> 24:32.843
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm watching it from the perspective of not because I want to rehash any of that stuff.

24:32.863 --> 24:36.685
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I always should really conflicted feelings, watching anything related to that.

24:37.145 --> 24:48.989
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Michael Jackson, but the reporting at the time, I don't remember the reporting being out there, I guess, you know, you're not doing documentary on it.

24:49.269 --> 24:56.091
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I remember certain parts of the story, but all Michael would have to do is come on TV and say,

24:57.190 --> 25:00.694
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, don't judge me for this like wait till the facts come out.

25:00.754 --> 25:04.938
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it seemed like everything was all good and we could kind of like push it away.

25:05.279 --> 25:07.601
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reporting is is super interesting in this case.

25:07.661 --> 25:17.391
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I think it's, what is the most interesting thing is we have this Michael movie, which we reviewed on a previous episode of The Cool Check-In.

25:18.332 --> 25:21.395
[SPEAKER_01]: movie did a billion dollars, which is insane.

25:21.475 --> 25:22.136
[SPEAKER_01]: Insane.

25:22.376 --> 25:29.162
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the biggest hits of the year, it will end up as the highest film, as far as how much money it made.

25:29.562 --> 25:35.087
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to be probably in the top five of the highest earners for the year, at least worldwide.

25:35.647 --> 25:35.948
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

25:37.045 --> 25:54.015
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what's happening and I'm seeing it in real time is you have kids or not even kids maybe people just younger than us who are like this movie comes out so MJ's back in the pop culture zeitgeist

25:54.575 --> 25:57.618
[SPEAKER_01]: And they remember like, Oh, yeah, I remember these songs.

25:57.678 --> 25:58.479
[SPEAKER_01]: I love these songs.

25:58.499 --> 25:59.820
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go listen to them again.

26:00.280 --> 26:02.182
[SPEAKER_01]: And then now they're just locked in.

26:02.422 --> 26:04.784
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh, the greatest hitter, Taylor of all time.

26:04.825 --> 26:07.027
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like, this is happening in real time.

26:07.967 --> 26:10.530
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now Netflix puts out the documentary and it's like,

26:11.752 --> 26:15.075
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, to be fair, they're taking advantage of this time period as well.

26:15.195 --> 26:17.636
[SPEAKER_01]: 100 pages, they save this for the perfect time.

26:18.237 --> 26:25.943
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now you kind of have this kind of, you know, that you have this like, this meeting point of, oh, MJ is great.

26:26.343 --> 26:29.726
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait, just make sure you remember that this thing happened.

26:29.766 --> 26:31.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's not forget this.

26:31.407 --> 26:37.772
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's kind of like this, like for me, someone who's a MJ super fan, but also,

26:39.267 --> 26:41.393
[SPEAKER_01]: trained in journalism.

26:41.554 --> 26:44.884
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh my gosh, this is, this is almost too much for me to deal with.

26:45.568 --> 26:45.988
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot.

26:46.068 --> 26:59.232
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was a lot then, and I do think initially, a lot of the reporting, you know, back in like 93, 94, was sympathetic to Mike, and being like, oh, maybe he got set up.

27:00.493 --> 27:11.176
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, when he settled, and then, like, married Lisa Marie, and it was just like all, and canceled this tour, and was doing the drug, like, all this stuff, everybody

27:15.791 --> 27:21.393
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a weird thing to kind of take stock of in totality.

27:21.933 --> 27:28.515
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and you know, look, I mean, the reality of the situation is, I mean, there's a couple of realities of the situation.

27:28.775 --> 27:33.876
[SPEAKER_00]: One, it must be interesting to be someone who is like young within 30 or 35 who

27:37.050 --> 27:43.176
[SPEAKER_00]: wasn't around, or wasn't really like conscious of pop culture when these things were happening, right?

27:43.216 --> 27:58.531
[SPEAKER_00]: Because your perspective is going to be completely different than the perspective of, you know, me and you, who were 17 years old when, you know, the allegations occurred and have a consciousness of like, what all of this means and what Michael was before that.

28:01.188 --> 28:12.318
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I think, from a psychological perspective, it's incredibly interesting, and, you know, I mean, I've talked already about, you know, how I kind of feel about the whole thing.

28:14.540 --> 28:16.943
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, that's also complicated.

28:17.323 --> 28:26.571
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't know, I think everybody's dealing with complicated feelings, you know, some more complicated than others, you know, unfortunately,

28:27.588 --> 28:34.930
[SPEAKER_00]: The only people that really know what happened in that situation are Jordan Chandler and Michael Jackson, who is now dead.

28:37.131 --> 28:37.411
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

28:38.351 --> 28:40.652
[SPEAKER_01]: October 31st speaking of two Pock.

28:41.532 --> 28:48.374
[SPEAKER_01]: Two Pock is arrested in charge with shooting two off duty police officers in Atlanta, the charges are later dropped.

28:49.417 --> 28:54.840
[SPEAKER_01]: November 24th, Janet Jackson begins her Janet World Tour in Cincinnati, Ohio.

28:54.900 --> 29:00.924
[SPEAKER_01]: The opening concert was covered by MTV in a television special featuring brief light performances and coverage from the show.

29:01.284 --> 29:02.385
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember this?

29:03.326 --> 29:04.446
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I'd have seen that show.

29:04.466 --> 29:06.208
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I, I, I, I remember correctly.

29:07.128 --> 29:11.612
[SPEAKER_00]: heard the New York date on that show was actually New Year's Eve, 93 going into 94.

29:12.513 --> 29:16.456
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same night, they last sold in a tribe called Quested a Show together.

29:16.476 --> 29:17.177
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow.

29:17.497 --> 29:23.323
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was trying to amigo a way to get to either one of those shows and I didn't go into neither of those shows.

29:26.235 --> 29:29.758
[SPEAKER_01]: But Cincinnati, Ohio, Janet, that's where you kick off the world tour.

29:30.038 --> 29:34.962
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, nothing against Cincinnati, you always do it first show.

29:35.343 --> 29:38.065
[SPEAKER_00]: You always do your first show in kind of like a beer see market.

29:38.525 --> 29:41.508
[SPEAKER_00]: That way, you can work out the kinks before you get to the big cities.

29:42.873 --> 29:43.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that makes sense.

29:44.734 --> 29:55.437
[SPEAKER_01]: And then December 22nd, MJ makes his first public statement regarding the allegations in a videotape address, Jackson calls the accusation.

29:55.537 --> 30:01.199
[SPEAKER_01]: It's totally false and asked the public to wait to hear the truth before you label or condemn me.

30:02.519 --> 30:12.022
[SPEAKER_01]: And then December 31st, the 22nd annual, New Year's Rock and Eve Special Airs on ABC, with appearances by Brooks and Dunn, okay?

30:12.936 --> 30:13.657
[SPEAKER_01]: Darrell Hall.

30:13.957 --> 30:14.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

30:14.377 --> 30:15.839
[SPEAKER_01]: Get that kiss.

30:16.579 --> 30:17.560
[SPEAKER_01]: Get that as well.

30:18.441 --> 30:19.302
[SPEAKER_01]: SWV.

30:19.562 --> 30:20.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

30:20.162 --> 30:20.943
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes a lot of sense.

30:21.003 --> 30:21.864
[SPEAKER_01]: Barry Mannellow.

30:22.364 --> 30:22.684
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

30:22.704 --> 30:24.406
[SPEAKER_01]: You might need to write me some sleepiness there.

30:24.446 --> 30:29.910
[SPEAKER_01]: But the last person just does not fit with these others.

30:30.651 --> 30:31.692
[SPEAKER_01]: Joey Lawrence.

30:32.713 --> 30:34.574
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Joey Lawrence had a record out in 1993.

30:35.575 --> 30:35.875
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:36.056 --> 30:37.156
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing my love can fix.

30:37.797 --> 30:38.718
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that song.

30:38.898 --> 30:39.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

30:40.980 --> 30:41.220
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my

30:43.150 --> 30:46.512
[SPEAKER_01]: They were getting the blossom fans to stay up and watch the Dick Clark show.

30:47.292 --> 30:58.998
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean Joey Lawrence was kind of like the big TV teen idol at that time But that all and he had that wavy mullet man Okay, so let's talk about the woo

31:00.397 --> 31:03.699
[SPEAKER_01]: So the origin story of the Lutean clan.

31:03.719 --> 31:10.302
[SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of mentioned some of the earlier about how they were, they had come out prior to the Lutean clan.

31:10.322 --> 31:22.128
[SPEAKER_01]: But so Rizza, Robert Diggs, Jizza, Gary Grise, and Russell Jones, ODB, their first cousins who grew up together in Brooklyn and Staten Island.

31:23.208 --> 31:27.212
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and as cousins do, you bond over different things.

31:27.312 --> 31:31.976
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for them, it was like kung fu movies and comic books and, and hip-hop.

31:33.036 --> 31:40.362
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and when they were teenagers, they created a group called Force of the Imperial Master.

31:40.442 --> 31:43.305
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds a pretty star-worthy there.

31:44.657 --> 31:48.259
[SPEAKER_01]: Later renamed all in together now, crew.

31:48.459 --> 31:49.259
[SPEAKER_01]: Very not start.

31:49.279 --> 31:49.660
[SPEAKER_01]: We're see.

31:49.740 --> 31:52.741
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the name or kind of they'd really different.

31:54.202 --> 31:59.845
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they grew up steeped in the 5% nation teachings.

32:01.766 --> 32:09.709
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where you hear Supreme mathematics and Supreme alphabet's like in some of their rhymes, as well as a steady diet of the shop, brothers, kung

32:11.846 --> 32:19.467
[SPEAKER_01]: Eastern philosophy, 5% numerology, street reality, that's how we get to the ethos of Wu Te.

32:21.087 --> 32:28.974
[SPEAKER_01]: So before Wu Tang even existed, Jizza and Rizza had already been signed and dropped by major labels as solo artist.

32:29.555 --> 32:34.219
[SPEAKER_01]: So Rizza had a single called U, I love you, Rakeem as Prince Rakeem.

32:34.920 --> 32:43.567
[SPEAKER_01]: It flopped and he was dropped and the Jizza released words from the genius in 1991 as the genius, he wasn't Jizza, he was the genius.

32:44.648 --> 32:46.969
[SPEAKER_01]: And it also underperformed and he was let go.

32:47.690 --> 32:51.312
[SPEAKER_01]: So they got their reps and sort of dealing with the music industry.

32:52.152 --> 32:57.395
[SPEAKER_01]: And the conclusion was that they kind of chew up solo rappers.

32:58.536 --> 33:09.341
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they decided at that point, they needed to form a group as a way to kind of exist and succeed.

33:13.159 --> 33:31.378
[SPEAKER_01]: Rizza brought together nine rappers from the Park Hill and Stapleton Housing Projects on Staten Island, which the group nicknamed Shaolin, Jizza, Rizza, ODB, Method Man, Rayquan, Ghostface Killer, Inspector Deck, You God, and Master Killer.

33:32.752 --> 33:52.222
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talked about, and this is kind of why I wanted to do this album close to when we talked about tribe because we talked about how scenario was like the ultimate like group posse cut, like just get a bunch of really good rappers together.

33:52.722 --> 33:56.664
[SPEAKER_01]: And we think kind of creates an entire group out of that idea.

33:56.724 --> 34:02.167
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much they were influenced by that or not, but it always, it always, it always

34:02.927 --> 34:12.114
[SPEAKER_01]: fascinated me that, you know, it's only a couple of years off of scenario and like you have a group and they could do a bunch of scenarios on an album.

34:12.654 --> 34:12.895
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

34:13.395 --> 34:26.164
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's a whole album of scenarios potentially, you know, prior to Routang and even after Routang, I mean, most groups were like three people or four people at most hip hop groups.

34:27.805 --> 34:38.569
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, Wu Tang was kind of almost back to like the beginning of hip-hop with like grandmaster flashing the furious five and like fucking four plus one in these groups which had like five and six people.

34:39.430 --> 34:53.836
[SPEAKER_00]: But nine is like dialed after like R&B groups from the seventies like right like that's right right I mean and you know the size wise you do look at a lot of those R&B groups from seventies looking like earth when

34:59.582 --> 35:03.524
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll hire players of like any of those groups and there's like eight and nine ten love fuckers on stage.

35:03.944 --> 35:23.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were a huge, huge band, but you know, the size of groups had like shrunk down and Wu Tan kind of just like brought that back up and it's not like, you know, it wasn't like an R&B group where like sure you're going to have leads series, but Charles is going to have like a keyboard player and a drummer and a trumpet player and like blah, blah, blah.

35:23.350 --> 35:25.331
[SPEAKER_00]: This was just nine dudes standing on stage rapid.

35:25.371 --> 35:25.711
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't

35:28.754 --> 35:52.680
[SPEAKER_01]: So Reza became the leader and the in-house producer and he created what became known as the five-year plan which was to break the group out first and then flood the market with solo albums each produced or overseen by himself on different labels and this is the part where I was just like man.

35:53.560 --> 35:55.063
[SPEAKER_01]: That's frickin' brilliant.

35:55.524 --> 35:58.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not now it only works if the group

36:00.435 --> 36:25.541
[SPEAKER_01]: it becomes stars like as the unit you can become stars because you know not as we know you got in master killa like didn't become these giant solo stars even in respect to deck who I think some people thought should have had a better career than he did he came so late in the solo album game flooding the market worked for some but it was almost like getting their first worked best

36:31.043 --> 36:41.032
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yep, yep, yeah, nothing, nothing man was first and I think ODB was a couple months after that yet and it's just an incredible

36:42.258 --> 36:49.383
[SPEAKER_01]: like strategy in a, you know, for just young dudes who are just like what do we do?

36:49.564 --> 36:54.167
[SPEAKER_00]: There's the plan super entrepreneurial and, you know, it worked, right?

36:54.307 --> 37:04.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, like the first five solo records like meth, ODB, Rayquan, jizzah, jizzah, ghost face.

37:04.535 --> 37:10.079
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was the sequence of like the first five and those were all like big

37:12.988 --> 37:26.133
[SPEAKER_01]: So the group self finance and released protected neck independently in late 92, it became an underground hit, college radio hit, and then the labels started calling.

37:27.754 --> 37:42.000
[SPEAKER_01]: So multiple labels wanted to sign them several including RCA wanted to sign the members individually, rather than as a group, reportedly offering risa close to a million to hand over the members separately.

37:42.850 --> 37:47.794
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to get some easy e-jerry heller action going on with the riser there.

37:48.275 --> 37:50.457
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the way the music industry works.

37:51.905 --> 37:53.006
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Rizza turned it down.

37:53.346 --> 37:58.010
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted the group first signed as a unit, but with an unprecedented clause.

37:58.650 --> 38:07.337
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the group belonged to one label, each individual member remained a free agent, able to sign his own separate solo deal with any other label.

38:08.058 --> 38:19.166
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess, I don't know if Rizza was kind of the mastermind behind where they each went, but it sounds like, you know, he was really behind the lot of the business of these guys.

38:21.380 --> 38:22.832
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, again, like smart dude.

38:24.827 --> 38:44.176
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so loud records was the label that said yes, so they signed to loud for 60,000, which was a modest, but the structure is what made it historic that they all still had the ability to go solo wherever they wanted.

38:44.416 --> 38:49.258
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, right, 36 chambers was released on November 9, 1993.

38:52.833 --> 38:56.674
[SPEAKER_01]: So I always found this super interesting as well.

38:57.854 --> 39:03.375
[SPEAKER_01]: So 36 Chambers drops in late 93 West Coast G-Funk.

39:03.395 --> 39:04.595
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about Dr. Dr.

39:04.635 --> 39:08.176
[SPEAKER_01]: Drain Snoop and that's kind of dominating the national scene.

39:08.696 --> 39:17.617
[SPEAKER_01]: We've mentioned trap call Quest and like they're not as recognized and commercially as Dr.

39:17.637 --> 39:17.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Drain

39:22.892 --> 39:30.795
[SPEAKER_01]: respected standpoint, like those albums and those artists around that time, like the rapidest moving in a different direction.

39:30.815 --> 39:37.217
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're not, we're not trying to just sit on the laurel, or rest on the laurels of what Dr. Nupert doing, it's moving.

39:37.257 --> 39:50.642
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, right, I was, I was wondered, like how, like, when it, like today, it's a little bit different, because you could actually record a song, master it, get it out to the public in several days.

39:51.428 --> 39:56.911
[SPEAKER_01]: But back then, if you had, I don't exactly the turnaround time.

39:56.951 --> 40:01.814
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different for some, but like, let's say in 1993, you're hearing Dr.

40:01.834 --> 40:09.738
[SPEAKER_01]: Drain Snoop and you're like, Oh, Wu Tang and then tribe and all these other things and you're like, Oh, my gosh, I need to get my thing out by the time you finally get your thing out.

40:10.547 --> 40:16.870
[SPEAKER_01]: But hip-up had moves so quickly, like you might just be out of touch by the time your team comes up.

40:17.331 --> 40:29.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and I think that's an issue that be fell a lot of rappers, it's like, by the time, you know, and I'll take some time to make the record,

40:29.888 --> 40:54.419
[SPEAKER_00]: you master the record you get the record pressed like this process is like a month long process and in hip hop back in those days you wait six months to sound of hip hop completely changes yeah so a lot of folks got caught behind the eight ball just because you know the record didn't come out in time yeah um now going back to like what you said about that release date I believe if I remember correctly the first

40:59.001 --> 41:02.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and in August I came out either the following week or two weeks after that.

41:04.223 --> 41:04.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Damn.

41:05.223 --> 41:12.486
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when when when when when we were waste when we were spending all of our money on CDs.

41:13.547 --> 41:16.848
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and you know, I think the craziest thing is

41:18.063 --> 41:27.407
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Routaine ultimately became this national phenomenon, but that album was very, very much a New York album for like a long time.

41:28.468 --> 41:30.889
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think the album debuted super high.

41:31.009 --> 41:36.431
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it sold a lot initially, like over time, like it became this huge thing.

41:37.952 --> 41:44.135
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was, and you know, going back to what you were saying about how like the Routaine members came up and the sound of the record,

41:45.151 --> 41:47.873
[SPEAKER_00]: And the things that they're wrapping about, like those things are very New York.

41:47.973 --> 41:58.279
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how can we move these, you know, in very New York thing, like on Saturday after the news, if you weren't outside, after SoulTrain came off the air,

41:59.238 --> 42:03.559
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the local TV stations were playing either wrestling or kung fu movies.

42:03.999 --> 42:16.421
[SPEAKER_00]: Like 5% is very much like a New York thing where dudes would like get locked up, come out of jail, learn Islam and become part of this group.

42:16.481 --> 42:22.682
[SPEAKER_00]: So it started off as like this very like localized thing and then just kind of like built out from there.

42:23.202 --> 42:24.062
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's also funny.

42:24.262 --> 42:25.602
[SPEAKER_01]: I just looked this up to make sure.

42:26.083 --> 42:28.803
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember that movie true romance with Christian Slater?

42:30.645 --> 42:31.106
[SPEAKER_01]: Bailey.

42:31.967 --> 42:34.210
[SPEAKER_01]: So Christian Slater's character.

42:34.390 --> 42:37.454
[SPEAKER_01]: He works at a, I think he works at a comic book shop.

42:37.494 --> 42:39.096
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's the comic book piece of it.

42:39.477 --> 42:39.737
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

42:39.997 --> 42:44.603
[SPEAKER_01]: And his, he's a fanatic for kung fu movies.

42:45.064 --> 42:47.427
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's comes out the same year that the album comes out.

42:47.828 --> 42:48.048
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

42:48.108 --> 42:48.749
[SPEAKER_01]: And hilarious.

42:49.920 --> 42:53.142
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, certified platinum by 1995.

42:53.202 --> 43:06.292
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you said, it took a little bit slow burn peaked at 41 on the Billboard 200 despite virtually no radio or label push pure word of mouth and mixed tape college radio momentum.

43:07.291 --> 43:13.235
[SPEAKER_01]: Rolling Stone in 2020 ranked it as number 27 on the 500 greatest albums of all time.

43:14.076 --> 43:24.343
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always weird to me when these publications that are not super hip-hop focused rank hip-hop albums against stuff that came out in like the 70s and the 80s.

43:24.623 --> 43:29.487
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's weird to me like like this album, you know, we'll get to our no-skips rating.

43:29.567 --> 43:33.069
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it ranks fairly high in that way, but I don't know, 27.

43:34.917 --> 43:35.878
[SPEAKER_01]: in the top 100.

43:36.598 --> 43:39.080
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not my 27th favorite wrap-out.

43:39.600 --> 43:41.602
[SPEAKER_00]: Never mind, every other genre in existence.

43:41.822 --> 43:47.466
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I think the folks at Rolling Stone and trying to get some like whiteboard cray.

43:47.926 --> 43:49.807
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, I guess.

43:49.867 --> 44:01.035
[SPEAKER_01]: Selected in 2022 for the preservation in the Library of Congress National Recording Registry for being culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant.

44:01.735 --> 44:02.436
[SPEAKER_00]: It is significant.

44:03.652 --> 44:14.755
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so before we kind of get to the album and the songs and what we love about this album, I just wanted to quickly go over the discography.

44:15.095 --> 44:16.515
[SPEAKER_01]: So we get enter the Wu Tang.

44:17.475 --> 44:22.296
[SPEAKER_01]: I always screw this the name of this album up because everyone calls it 36 chambers.

44:22.316 --> 44:23.097
[SPEAKER_01]: 36 chambers.

44:23.317 --> 44:27.538
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I put it together, I always call it enter the 36 chambers instead of enter the

44:34.440 --> 44:35.861
[SPEAKER_01]: 36 Chambers.

44:36.321 --> 44:40.024
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Wu Tang forever 1997, which was the double album.

44:40.064 --> 44:40.585
[SPEAKER_01]: Double album.

44:41.265 --> 44:49.311
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, this is just a much more polished version of their 1993 album, like similar style.

44:49.672 --> 44:56.397
[SPEAKER_01]: They're almost kind of too famous for this album when it drops to really really catch the wave that they did in 93.

44:58.158 --> 45:00.160
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I mentioned this on a previous episode.

45:00.200 --> 45:02.121
[SPEAKER_01]: I was working at Blockbuster Video at this time.

45:02.861 --> 45:08.345
[SPEAKER_01]: We had this album in our store like two weeks before release date.

45:08.905 --> 45:11.627
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like sitting there, and it's a double album.

45:11.647 --> 45:26.097
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like 28 bucks and with our cheapo 15% discount, it's not like it would have been that much, that much cheaper, but if you want, we could have just sold it to ourselves like two weeks before the album came out because we had it in store.

45:26.902 --> 45:31.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, I mean, you know, that second album was really just the first time when a big budget.

45:31.404 --> 45:32.984
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

45:33.785 --> 45:36.346
[SPEAKER_01]: But it goes number one on the Billboard 200.

45:37.446 --> 45:47.070
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people were waiting and, you know, again, like very crafty, those solo albums, this success of those albums built anticipation for the second album.

45:48.551 --> 45:48.771
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

45:50.311 --> 45:54.653
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk about the Grammy's situation that

45:57.681 --> 45:58.541
[SPEAKER_01]: we'll talk about that later.

45:59.142 --> 45:59.442
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

45:59.762 --> 46:02.403
[SPEAKER_01]: So the W comes out in the year 2000.

46:05.384 --> 46:07.164
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even remember this album that much.

46:07.464 --> 46:13.427
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember that gravel pit, but that's like only the only song I remember from the sample.

46:13.487 --> 46:16.928
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I sort of remember it.

46:16.948 --> 46:19.929
[SPEAKER_01]: 2001, they come out with iron flag.

46:20.049 --> 46:22.850
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember this one because I remember it just being

46:24.534 --> 46:27.555
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, less guest artisty.

46:27.935 --> 46:32.376
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess you could say because the W had like a bunch of guests on it.

46:32.396 --> 46:35.016
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, you have so many people on your album.

46:35.036 --> 46:37.717
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're going to ask you already got nine members here.

46:37.737 --> 46:44.279
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need to hear Snoop Dogg rap with the who take then eight diagrams in 2007 they changed labels by this time.

46:52.043 --> 47:20.068
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the just as a unit so you know we're talking about 14 years after the debut as a unit maybe not all on the same page here anymore guys figured out you know they were able to have successes outside of the group and so you know who's the big dog and the whole thing and I know Rizzo I know Rizzo felt like you know maybe he people were blaming him for stuff and you know if something went wrong it was like his fault or whatever I remember hearing some of those stories

47:22.446 --> 47:24.247
[SPEAKER_01]: 2014, a better tomorrow.

47:24.367 --> 47:33.315
[SPEAKER_01]: So seven years after eight diagrams, they're six thalbum and then the saga continues in 2017.

47:33.375 --> 47:42.304
[SPEAKER_01]: It's build as a Wu Tang clan album though largely produced by mathematics on the production.

47:43.164 --> 47:47.125
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you know, they're not really together as a unit.

47:47.165 --> 47:48.366
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not there.

47:48.426 --> 47:53.687
[SPEAKER_01]: They know that the money is not really in them getting together and doing albums anymore.

47:55.708 --> 48:01.970
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I wanted to focus on the the first solo albums post 36 chambers.

48:02.962 --> 48:06.265
[SPEAKER_01]: because, you know, I was going through all of them.

48:06.285 --> 48:10.089
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got, I listened to all of them, at least once through.

48:10.109 --> 48:15.554
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know some of them as well as I've known others like, of course I know the method bands album.

48:15.634 --> 48:20.018
[SPEAKER_01]: I know ODB's album, Rayquan's album, Jizza's album.

48:20.979 --> 48:21.700
[SPEAKER_01]: Ghostface.

48:22.560 --> 48:28.045
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it decently, but I'd never listened to Bobby digital all the way through before.

48:28.525 --> 48:30.947
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd never listened to Inspector Deck all the way through before.

48:31.507 --> 48:34.129
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we get to you God and Master Killa.

48:34.269 --> 48:40.114
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I would have never chosen to listen to those albums except for this this thing.

48:40.134 --> 48:40.694
[SPEAKER_01]: So I did.

48:40.734 --> 48:41.835
[SPEAKER_01]: I listened to God bless you.

48:42.255 --> 48:42.736
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?

48:44.117 --> 48:47.019
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not bad, but they're so far

48:50.654 --> 48:56.216
[SPEAKER_01]: that they couldn't catch the momentum that those early out, literally, I was almost like, why did they even come out at this point?

48:56.516 --> 49:07.980
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's nine dudes, you know, think about the price of a CD back in those days and you're spending, you know, $150 on a routine plan.

49:08.600 --> 49:09.820
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, is too much.

49:11.121 --> 49:15.282
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so first album, Method Man to Cal.

49:15.302 --> 49:17.883
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know it to Cal supposedly stands for,

49:19.362 --> 49:22.764
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike, T-I-C-A-L is supposed to stand for something?

49:23.064 --> 49:23.304
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

49:23.784 --> 49:25.485
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I just thought the cow was in the name of a weed.

49:25.725 --> 49:26.005
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

49:26.586 --> 49:27.006
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.

49:27.806 --> 49:31.328
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I thought you meant that it was like the T was supposed to stand for something.

49:31.348 --> 49:32.409
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it does.

49:32.509 --> 49:32.869
[SPEAKER_01]: It does.

49:32.909 --> 49:36.171
[SPEAKER_01]: Supposedly, according to method men, it actually stands for something.

49:36.211 --> 49:36.971
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an acronym.

49:38.512 --> 49:39.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, please share.

49:39.612 --> 49:44.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Taking into consideration all lives.

49:48.649 --> 49:54.473
[SPEAKER_00]: I was I into taking, oh, oh, yeah.

49:54.773 --> 49:55.133
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

49:55.454 --> 49:57.875
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that sounds like something he made up after that.

49:58.256 --> 50:00.137
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's that definitely does.

50:00.637 --> 50:02.339
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that is a background.

50:02.839 --> 50:03.079
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

50:04.420 --> 50:12.166
[SPEAKER_01]: So November 15, 1994, deaf gym, risa produces every track except for two.

50:13.527 --> 50:16.249
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, this was I thought,

50:17.297 --> 50:23.382
[SPEAKER_01]: the perfect solo album to to come out after the Wu Ting I think method man had.

50:24.445 --> 50:28.487
[SPEAKER_01]: probably the most star power of all of the dudes.

50:29.148 --> 50:31.769
[SPEAKER_01]: He had the most distinct voice, though.

50:31.789 --> 50:35.871
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that I think some of them had pretty distinct voices, too.

50:35.891 --> 50:38.613
[SPEAKER_01]: Like ODB's charisma is off the charts.

50:38.653 --> 50:39.733
[SPEAKER_01]: His voice is different.

50:41.334 --> 50:45.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Ghostface's voice is a little higher pitch than other.

50:45.537 --> 50:51.320
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but I don't know, for some reason, I always thought Method Man had like the total package out of everybody.

50:52.691 --> 50:56.072
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not that I like all of his albums, by the way.

50:56.132 --> 50:58.492
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, his albums are super inconsistent.

50:58.592 --> 50:59.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

51:00.172 --> 51:03.233
[SPEAKER_00]: And you are right that they each have not each.

51:03.573 --> 51:16.775
[SPEAKER_00]: But the more, of course, to where I'm looking for, like the more unique members had distinct voices, you know, met the man had like the sort of gruff voice, but his thing wasn't even so much his voice, it was his charisma.

51:17.415 --> 51:20.156
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that he was probably the only member of Wu Xing that really had like,

51:21.303 --> 51:26.304
[SPEAKER_00]: appeal to a female audience, you know, ODB was crazy.

51:26.484 --> 51:30.745
[SPEAKER_00]: Ghostfaces have like the high pitch, you know, whatever, Rizza has a speech impediment.

51:31.105 --> 51:37.887
[SPEAKER_00]: So like they all have, you know, the more prominent members all have like unique elements to their voices.

51:38.087 --> 51:40.728
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is your favorite member by the way, if you had it?

51:40.828 --> 51:48.710
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, probably Ghostface, you know, I, Ghostface is the only,

51:50.474 --> 51:53.737
[SPEAKER_00]: individual member of Wu Tang, who would put out, who could put out album on Friday?

51:54.017 --> 51:55.819
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would probably at least listen to it once.

51:56.960 --> 51:58.642
[SPEAKER_01]: My favorite member is Jizza.

51:59.683 --> 52:06.108
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think my favorite album after entered 36 chambers is like with swords.

52:06.995 --> 52:10.658
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's when I was trying to catch up and loosen a little bit today.

52:10.678 --> 52:11.879
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the first time I went on.

52:12.380 --> 52:13.301
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

52:13.541 --> 52:16.724
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, that dude is really smart.

52:17.024 --> 52:26.212
[SPEAKER_01]: What I would always come out of listening to him rap is like, that dude that kind of smart for, he's like, he's like just intellectual in a way that you don't really hear rappers be intellectual.

52:26.981 --> 52:34.244
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, the second album, ODB, returned to the 36 chambers, March 1995.

52:34.344 --> 52:50.530
[SPEAKER_01]: So about five months after method man drops, Resa again, main producer, some production by ODB himself, just what every, what you would think an ODB album would be supposed to sound like.

52:55.038 --> 53:01.923
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of on on on something or other while he's recording the album, which he probably didn't need.

53:02.664 --> 53:10.590
[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of works because he created for the short time that that he was hot.

53:10.730 --> 53:16.514
[SPEAKER_01]: He created a pretty unique lane for himself as a hip hop star if that's what you want to call it.

53:16.574 --> 53:19.076
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was just other things that that caught up with him.

53:19.796 --> 53:20.057
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

53:20.817 --> 53:21.838
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know,

53:24.882 --> 53:36.125
[SPEAKER_00]: His name was unique, I mean, back in the day, like, figure out how to like get around saying, oh, Dirty Bastard on MTV or on the radio was kind of funny.

53:36.665 --> 53:41.926
[SPEAKER_00]: But also, it's like, he was, he was so bizarre.

53:42.726 --> 53:51.188
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was kind of like, he was like, Buster Rimes and Bismarcky mixed with like, somebody who was completely off his meds.

53:51.528 --> 53:54.169
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it was just a very like unique thing.

53:56.190 --> 54:15.922
[SPEAKER_01]: the nicknames that he gave himself for always hilarious yes on on at the beginning of triumph which is the lead single on uh... Wu Tang forever his he goes he you know so he calls himself osiris big baby jesus was another one what what what they're doing a few of the dirt

54:19.629 --> 54:20.749
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, a song unique.

54:20.889 --> 54:23.210
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a he he had a lot of names.

54:23.710 --> 54:24.591
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love it.

54:25.571 --> 54:31.693
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that the idea of having like somebody who's a little bit odd.

54:31.753 --> 54:33.593
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just the on to the crew.

54:33.633 --> 54:33.893
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

54:34.374 --> 54:37.635
[SPEAKER_01]: Now some of it is very irresponsible at the same time.

54:37.655 --> 54:40.716
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that what he was doing was also responsible.

54:40.756 --> 54:42.796
[SPEAKER_01]: You can hear in the lyrics and such too.

54:43.416 --> 54:43.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

54:43.837 --> 54:44.037
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

54:44.117 --> 54:44.357
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

54:46.129 --> 54:48.111
[SPEAKER_01]: August 1, 1995.

54:48.712 --> 54:51.915
[SPEAKER_01]: So he signed with loud RCA.

54:51.955 --> 54:54.797
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was the only one I think, right?

54:54.817 --> 54:55.298
[SPEAKER_01]: The only one.

54:55.458 --> 54:56.419
[SPEAKER_00]: He was the only one.

54:56.579 --> 54:57.440
[SPEAKER_00]: He was the only one.

54:58.577 --> 55:01.978
[SPEAKER_01]: So only bill for Cuban links raises 100% behind this one.

55:02.739 --> 55:10.802
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the structure of a mob film, Rayquan, Ghostface, is on this as well.

55:11.302 --> 55:19.085
[SPEAKER_01]: Heavy, mafia, imagery, organized, crime, stuff, kind of like what reasonable doubt and it was written like that style.

55:19.105 --> 55:26.988
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't think, I don't think reasonable doubt or it was written or a life after that exists without only vote for Cuban whims.

55:27.408 --> 55:27.628
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

55:28.028 --> 55:28.688
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.

55:29.009 --> 55:29.809
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really good point.

55:31.029 --> 55:33.190
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about Rayquan as a rapper?

55:34.150 --> 55:37.272
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think, you know, it's funny.

55:38.572 --> 55:51.637
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of the stuff like only Bill for Cuban links was such like a classic record, but the verses that I pulled from that things I remember from it are either ghost face or not.

55:52.257 --> 55:52.537
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

55:53.505 --> 56:00.310
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I mean, Rayquan is, you know, like a good MC, but not a super unique MC.

56:01.470 --> 56:08.795
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I think it is a combination of the production and, you know, the fact that there's kind of like a Raygo's tag team.

56:09.356 --> 56:10.877
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that made that record so good.

56:18.051 --> 56:47.243
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... again hundred percent risa in uh... recorded at his own basement studio uh... he started using uh... digital midi stuff for the first time layered under his usual sample work the theme a chess board occupied by sword wielders jittas most metaphor dense philosophical writing frame by dialect dialogue samples from martial arts film shogun assassin

56:48.427 --> 56:59.116
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I just, this is the one for me where, and some of it might just be who influenced me to listen to the, to the, to the Wu stuff because my buddy Albert.

57:00.245 --> 57:08.934
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, he was, actually, I think Albert's favorite woo members actually inspect deck, but he's like, you need to listen to liquid swords.

57:09.675 --> 57:17.664
[SPEAKER_01]: He like method man too, but he's like, you can hear the difference in the consistency in the output of these guys, just by listening to these albums.

57:18.064 --> 57:18.385
[SPEAKER_01]: But.

57:18.905 --> 57:33.569
[SPEAKER_01]: Method man wins because he's so damn charismatic and this is just a little bit more reserved intellectual like that kind of style, but this yeah, this album I've probably heard this album the most set of any Wu Tang record.

57:34.369 --> 57:38.390
[SPEAKER_00]: And going back to net ultimately what Blu to Cal up was Puffy and Mary.

57:39.890 --> 57:42.331
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you know, it'll show up on my top five.

57:42.851 --> 57:43.211
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

57:44.851 --> 57:46.492
[SPEAKER_01]: It was on my top five of Mary too.

57:48.427 --> 57:50.868
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Ghostface Kill Iron Man.

57:50.908 --> 57:54.189
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we are in 1996.

57:54.449 --> 58:02.751
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're talking almost three years after enter the 36 or enter the Wu Tang on Epic.

58:05.112 --> 58:06.132
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, risen produced.

58:07.913 --> 58:13.495
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is also a showcase of Ray and Capodana as well.

58:13.555 --> 58:16.916
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like Ghostface, but he's also featuring these guys.

58:18.122 --> 58:19.523
[SPEAKER_00]: And you don't have to think of yourself.

58:19.904 --> 58:20.404
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

58:21.004 --> 58:29.891
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know what I was thinking, though, is how much of these songs, do you think got left off of other stuff?

58:30.032 --> 58:32.273
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, oh, you need a song for your album.

58:32.293 --> 58:33.194
[SPEAKER_01]: This kind of fits.

58:33.294 --> 58:35.075
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's throw this one on that joint.

58:35.736 --> 58:36.236
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably.

58:37.057 --> 58:38.238
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, it's funny.

58:38.378 --> 58:44.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear some, I did, like I said, I listened to Capodana and you got in Master Ace and Armasta Killa.

58:44.963 --> 58:46.925
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I was like,

58:48.532 --> 58:52.853
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the only reason method man is on this song is because it was recorded for somebody else.

58:56.194 --> 59:06.258
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, could you imagine in very likely, you know, 1990, whatever, and you need a Capodana joint and metth meths like, oh, I'm in.

59:06.298 --> 59:06.618
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

59:06.638 --> 59:06.938
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

59:07.018 --> 59:11.479
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to disc Capodana in that way, but meth was already like a giant superstar by that.

59:11.559 --> 59:13.880
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, meth is meth is busy doing other stuff.

59:15.448 --> 59:24.861
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... rizza bobby digital i hated this album i thought this album was so bad c-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-

59:30.571 --> 59:34.332
[SPEAKER_00]: back when it first came out, but it's been a long time since I've been able to listen to it.

59:34.372 --> 59:36.273
[SPEAKER_01]: Production wise, it's great.

59:36.493 --> 59:39.034
[SPEAKER_01]: He's definitely trying some things here.

59:39.434 --> 59:40.294
[SPEAKER_01]: It's his baby.

59:40.814 --> 59:43.055
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going left a little bit.

59:43.595 --> 59:44.675
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's weird.

59:45.436 --> 59:48.597
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just don't like his lyrics.

59:49.157 --> 59:51.398
[SPEAKER_00]: He's angry at people on this album.

59:51.758 --> 59:53.278
[SPEAKER_00]: He does not like women.

59:53.998 --> 59:54.999
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't like.

59:55.899 --> 01:00:16.808
[SPEAKER_01]: other dudes like he's he's definitely in his feelings on some of this stuff and I was like hmm this is you know yet not for you it's whatever it's whatever yeah he yeah I just didn't like this album when I listened to it but again I'm listening with 20 26 years here's sure but you know you gotta give this dude some credit because if he really wanted to be

01:00:18.729 --> 01:00:20.330
[SPEAKER_01]: the superstar of the group.

01:00:21.030 --> 01:00:26.693
[SPEAKER_01]: He would have went first, and he waits all the way until 1998 to put this thing out.

01:00:28.314 --> 01:00:30.395
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you look at it this way, right?

01:00:30.655 --> 01:00:32.736
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's producing all of those records.

01:00:32.756 --> 01:00:34.197
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's getting paid no matter what.

01:00:34.517 --> 01:00:34.817
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

01:00:37.438 --> 01:00:42.821
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you are the one making the deals, and you are the one producing everything,

01:00:45.013 --> 01:00:47.273
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how does he not try and be puffed atty?

01:00:47.514 --> 01:00:48.334
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you are.

01:00:48.374 --> 01:00:50.094
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to put your ego aside a little bit.

01:00:50.114 --> 01:00:51.414
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, I agree with you.

01:00:51.434 --> 01:00:54.115
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing that I respected a lot from him.

01:00:54.215 --> 01:00:54.315
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:00:54.335 --> 01:00:56.035
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, inspect the deck.

01:00:56.055 --> 01:01:00.396
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, it's a whole six years to put his album out.

01:01:00.456 --> 01:01:02.916
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of different producers on this one, though.

01:01:02.976 --> 01:01:06.037
[SPEAKER_01]: Rizza only produces two tracks.

01:01:06.097 --> 01:01:08.437
[SPEAKER_01]: Pete Rock is on this album.

01:01:08.697 --> 01:01:10.938
[SPEAKER_01]: Deck produces stuff on this as well.

01:01:13.329 --> 01:01:22.336
[SPEAKER_01]: He, I'm going to get, I'm going to get your thoughts on this because my buddy used to say he was the best pure rapper.

01:01:24.438 --> 01:01:30.143
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's also like, it's hard for me to distinguish him when I'm listening to Wu, Wu songs.

01:01:30.483 --> 01:01:33.325
[SPEAKER_01]: So I couldn't even tell you unless I was really focusing on him.

01:01:33.345 --> 01:01:39.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Like listening to this album, I think the album's good, but I wasn't floored in any way when I listened to it.

01:01:39.691 --> 01:01:39.911
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

01:01:42.432 --> 01:01:43.013
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:01:43.073 --> 01:01:49.278
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what do you think about like that label of him being like the the most technically like the M C's MC kind of thing?

01:01:49.779 --> 01:02:06.354
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think deck and Ray kind of have like the same, like the same thing where it's like, okay, like from a rhyming perspective, they are great M C's, but you know,

01:02:08.544 --> 01:02:14.226
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's always been the case that you can be a fucking amazing MC, you can be a dope ass MC.

01:02:14.967 --> 01:02:27.852
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is a whole art to like record making and being charismatic and all this other stuff that, you know, kind of elevates you above like the average rapper.

01:02:28.112 --> 01:02:33.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think where they get lost is that sure they got skills, they can rhyme, but they don't have charisma.

01:02:34.234 --> 01:02:36.655
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't necessarily have the ability to make hits.

01:02:38.396 --> 01:02:43.938
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I would rather hear an average rapper make a good record than to hear a good rapper make an average record.

01:02:44.779 --> 01:03:02.847
[SPEAKER_01]: Now to give him the benefit of the doubt a little bit, the story is that this album was supposed to be one of the first releases and a flood destroyed over 100 of Rizza's original beats stored in his basement studio, the same studio that he produced liquid

01:03:08.309 --> 01:03:17.152
[SPEAKER_01]: for four years before loud finally released a substantially reworked version with other woo affiliated producers filling the gap.

01:03:17.192 --> 01:03:19.012
[SPEAKER_01]: So actually he was also on loud as well.

01:03:20.493 --> 01:03:23.373
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like Rizaka just remade those beats.

01:03:26.074 --> 01:03:27.555
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

01:03:28.855 --> 01:03:29.535
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sad.

01:03:29.555 --> 01:03:32.156
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like there might be more to that story.

01:03:33.536 --> 01:03:33.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.

01:03:34.017 --> 01:03:35.097
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you got

01:03:36.153 --> 01:03:39.234
[SPEAKER_01]: Golden Arms Redemption, October 19th, 1999.

01:03:39.654 --> 01:03:45.296
[SPEAKER_01]: I had sent you a text earlier this week.

01:03:45.336 --> 01:03:50.197
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, how much are you got in Mesticilla, even known as like blue tag members?

01:03:50.277 --> 01:03:54.158
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like they're at the back end of the group here.

01:03:54.958 --> 01:04:00.000
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the album is actually interesting.

01:04:01.447 --> 01:04:05.571
[SPEAKER_01]: It because of the time it came out 1999 hip-hop production had changed.

01:04:05.931 --> 01:04:06.192
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:04:06.212 --> 01:04:16.541
[SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't sound as old school as the other Wu Tang record sound, but it, you know, 1999 was a little jigier than the 1993.

01:04:16.561 --> 01:04:18.243
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can definitely hear that.

01:04:18.303 --> 01:04:25.129
[SPEAKER_01]: You can definitely hear some more like commercial, like radio-friendly production.

01:04:26.129 --> 01:04:32.312
[SPEAKER_01]: and then Master Killa knows that date June 1, 2004, and I'm like, brother, it's 11 years.

01:04:32.512 --> 01:04:34.233
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you lost the clock there.

01:04:35.113 --> 01:04:42.897
[SPEAKER_01]: So supposedly, it took forever for this album to come out because it was recorded in pieces over seven years.

01:04:42.937 --> 01:04:44.798
[SPEAKER_01]: I think wasn't he in jail or something?

01:04:46.579 --> 01:04:46.879
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,

01:04:48.439 --> 01:04:49.980
[SPEAKER_01]: Possibly for there.

01:04:50.020 --> 01:04:52.062
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's a jail theme to the album.

01:04:52.082 --> 01:05:04.191
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's not what had happened, but it's like I don't know man like you you're waiting You're waiting your turn and you're a very patient man if you're waiting till 2011 years.

01:05:04.251 --> 01:05:04.931
[SPEAKER_00]: That's instant.

01:05:05.992 --> 01:05:06.292
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:05:07.193 --> 01:05:10.395
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was a fun little exercise because just shows you the

01:05:14.043 --> 01:05:26.153
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the smartness, but also at the same time, if you're on the back end of the releases, by the time, it's 1999, the woof, it's you.

01:05:26.173 --> 01:05:27.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, nobody cares.

01:05:27.994 --> 01:05:31.717
[SPEAKER_01]: The group is already in the, we don't really care about you stage.

01:05:31.797 --> 01:05:34.680
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they were care about meth, we care about ODB.

01:05:36.297 --> 01:05:40.178
[SPEAKER_01]: We care about resist production, and that's kind of it at that point.

01:05:40.658 --> 01:05:40.838
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:05:40.858 --> 01:05:46.999
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess Ghostface had a, yeah, I mean, Ghostface had to put out stuff in the 2000s for sure.

01:05:47.179 --> 01:05:58.221
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Ghostface has had the most consistently successful career out of all of them, you know, in terms of like records, like after people stopped caring about method man records, people were still checking for Ghostface record.

01:05:58.241 --> 01:05:58.442
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:05:58.762 --> 01:05:58.962
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:06:00.602 --> 01:06:00.922
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:06:01.102 --> 01:06:05.023
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's look at 36 chambers.

01:06:07.122 --> 01:06:10.706
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, what would you consider to be your favorite song on this album?

01:06:11.728 --> 01:06:13.490
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm going to work for it.

01:06:13.510 --> 01:06:14.471
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll spoil spoil.

01:06:14.551 --> 01:06:23.942
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but five, but like when when you go to this album and you're like, if I want to listen to one song from this album, what is that song?

01:06:24.702 --> 01:06:25.664
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's cream.

01:06:26.525 --> 01:06:26.745
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.243
[SPEAKER_01]: That loop is incredible.

01:06:32.443 --> 01:06:35.166
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you ever watch any of the L.L.

01:06:35.206 --> 01:06:39.790
[SPEAKER_01]: Salute your sample with Greg Nice and the producer or the DJ that they have?

01:06:40.586 --> 01:06:52.411
[SPEAKER_01]: No, so Ella has the show or he has the channel, the satellite radio channel and they do a segment called Salute the sample.

01:06:52.951 --> 01:07:06.337
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the DJ will break down like a song, a very familiar hip-hop song by showing the sample and then he'll recreate how the the rap song

01:07:07.217 --> 01:07:21.835
[SPEAKER_01]: use the sample and they did a Wu Tang one recently that I thought was was really brilliant and it just it just shows you like like you know not it's not only risa but like the way that they're putting this music together

01:07:22.970 --> 01:07:28.453
[SPEAKER_01]: to familiarize it because if you tell me cream, like I can hear the thing immediately, right?

01:07:28.473 --> 01:07:33.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's how fantastic that sample is and that's how creative it is.

01:07:33.756 --> 01:07:38.978
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't tell you what the real song was because it's a, I guess it's a sharp metal song.

01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:44.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's like obscure, oh, soul record.

01:07:45.041 --> 01:07:50.884
[SPEAKER_01]: And the idea of cash rules everything around me,

01:07:52.813 --> 01:08:03.123
[SPEAKER_01]: as for an acronym, like there are a handful of acronyms in hip-hop that are things that you like you can actually name.

01:08:03.603 --> 01:08:04.564
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is one of them.

01:08:04.584 --> 01:08:07.067
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if someone said, what is cream stand for?

01:08:07.447 --> 01:08:11.051
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost every hip-hop fan would know what cream stands for.

01:08:11.571 --> 01:08:11.771
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:08:12.272 --> 01:08:13.373
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just time.

01:08:14.047 --> 01:08:39.871
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for 100% so the the track by track opens up with bring to ruckus and the thing about this album is like it's almost like there's no Strategy I'm sure he I'm sure Rizah had a strategy and in like how to order the songs, but like they're just like it's almost like

01:08:40.831 --> 01:08:47.216
[SPEAKER_01]: When when I listen to out my think of these guys in the studio, it's like do a song and they're like, all right, what's next?

01:08:47.697 --> 01:08:48.097
[SPEAKER_01]: Boom.

01:08:48.557 --> 01:08:50.599
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just goes again, you know, they play a beat.

01:08:50.959 --> 01:08:55.083
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these beats, I think they are very, uh,

01:08:56.584 --> 01:09:19.266
[SPEAKER_01]: They're kind of connected to each other in a way like they're very similar, so the like the the the record as as a theme like works like you could just let this thing run But it just feels like you could envision them in the studio going like who's next go who's next go who's next go and like it just feels like that that spirit you can feel it in the record

01:09:19.967 --> 01:09:21.388
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a really interesting story.

01:09:22.109 --> 01:09:31.936
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been rereading Questlove's book about hip-hop, and he talks about this album, and, you know, Rainer Ruckus is the first song on an album, and it has a particular sample.

01:09:32.796 --> 01:09:37.520
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's, you know, I think two tracks later, Risa actually uses the exact same sample.

01:09:39.101 --> 01:09:43.126
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so or uses the same record and maybe like different part of it.

01:09:43.286 --> 01:09:43.547
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

01:09:43.927 --> 01:09:45.669
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so you know, I don't know.

01:09:45.790 --> 01:09:47.091
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it could have been a budget thing.

01:09:47.111 --> 01:09:50.976
[SPEAKER_00]: It could have been a creative thing, you know, you know, you don't know unless you're there.

01:09:51.276 --> 01:09:55.682
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the way Questlove turned it when he first heard about me just thought it was lazy.

01:09:57.173 --> 01:10:01.134
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have the titles of these songs, which are pretty incredible.

01:10:01.715 --> 01:10:08.777
[SPEAKER_01]: Demistory of chess box and there's always one of my favorite titles of a rap song.

01:10:09.077 --> 01:10:10.338
[SPEAKER_01]: Protect your neck, of course.

01:10:10.838 --> 01:10:12.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, was that their second single?

01:10:13.859 --> 01:10:17.681
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was the first single, protecting the birthday man were like, on a scene scene.

01:10:18.421 --> 01:10:19.861
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when did cream come out?

01:10:20.862 --> 01:10:21.942
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the second single.

01:10:22.102 --> 01:10:24.883
[SPEAKER_00]: Cream came out like probably right before the album.

01:10:25.443 --> 01:10:25.724
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

01:10:26.304 --> 01:10:26.584
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

01:10:27.197 --> 01:10:32.743
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Wu Teng, Wu Teng Clang, ain't nothing to fuck with, very memorable.

01:10:33.284 --> 01:10:42.114
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you mentioned Method Man, this, and I said earlier, this sort of in the first time I heard the group and how confused I was, I'm trying to remember what,

01:10:43.987 --> 01:10:47.069
[SPEAKER_01]: way that I heard it because I didn't hear it on this album.

01:10:47.890 --> 01:10:59.658
[SPEAKER_01]: It may have been some playlist or not a playlist, but like a mix CD or something or maybe a UMTV rap or something that where yeah, something like that where I was like, oh, like this is different.

01:11:00.139 --> 01:11:03.921
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, that's what some of those albums were good for.

01:11:03.961 --> 01:11:05.763
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you're like, oh, I never heard this before.

01:11:05.843 --> 01:11:08.144
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you want to go find the real album that it comes from.

01:11:08.725 --> 01:11:09.305
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:11:09.445 --> 01:11:10.126
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.

01:11:10.166 --> 01:11:11.747
[SPEAKER_01]: So the method man, I just

01:11:13.148 --> 01:11:22.215
[SPEAKER_01]: That was such a cool name for a dude, and when you saw him, you're like, yeah, that's the method, man.

01:11:22.295 --> 01:11:26.519
[SPEAKER_01]: Like again, you know, it's just incredible stuff.

01:11:26.919 --> 01:11:28.861
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, what would you give this for your no skips?

01:11:30.002 --> 01:11:31.283
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is this is an eight.

01:11:32.003 --> 01:11:36.367
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say I was like, after I listed it, I was like, this is an eight or nine, and sometimes,

01:11:37.557 --> 01:11:40.678
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, interludes and little kung fu things.

01:11:40.738 --> 01:11:45.681
[SPEAKER_01]: The women are like, sometimes you get sick of that stuff, but it just hit fit perfectly on this record.

01:11:45.961 --> 01:11:46.301
[SPEAKER_01]: On the South.

01:11:46.321 --> 01:11:47.822
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the hip hop thing, man.

01:11:47.882 --> 01:11:54.064
[SPEAKER_00]: I think any hip hop album from the 90s, and actually a lot of R&B albums from the 90s too.

01:11:54.085 --> 01:11:55.585
[SPEAKER_00]: You just want to program the skits out.

01:11:56.846 --> 01:12:00.768
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you can't, though, not on the South, because they're part of some of these songs.

01:12:01.088 --> 01:12:01.728
[SPEAKER_01]: Songs, right?

01:12:03.489 --> 01:12:03.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:12:05.310 --> 01:12:05.730
[SPEAKER_01]: So,

01:12:07.507 --> 01:12:12.288
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to bring up a little trivia, kind of little stories of these guys.

01:12:14.588 --> 01:12:19.109
[SPEAKER_01]: Ray Quan talked about being shot when he was a teenager.

01:12:19.989 --> 01:12:27.391
[SPEAKER_01]: Ghostface talked about street hustling before he became part of the group.

01:12:27.471 --> 01:12:33.772
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of that kind of, you know, living that life was real to wax in 1991.

01:12:33.792 --> 01:12:34.372
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know this.

01:12:36.116 --> 01:12:38.578
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe I did, and I just forgot about it.

01:12:38.938 --> 01:12:44.583
[SPEAKER_01]: 1991, Rizzo was charged with attempted murder after shooting in Ohio tied to a self-defense claim.

01:12:45.124 --> 01:12:49.767
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was acquitted at trial in 1993, the same year that 36 chambers came out.

01:12:50.288 --> 01:12:56.333
[SPEAKER_01]: And he has spoken about how close he came to the album never happening because of the trial.

01:12:56.353 --> 01:12:57.114
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

01:12:57.154 --> 01:12:59.556
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, he's not aware.

01:13:00.356 --> 01:13:02.758
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, we got to talk about the,

01:13:04.801 --> 01:13:09.443
[SPEAKER_01]: 19, is it, is it the 98 Grammys when all the stuff happened?

01:13:10.463 --> 01:13:12.103
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, uh, who changed for the children?

01:13:12.403 --> 01:13:12.744
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

01:13:13.264 --> 01:13:13.524
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:13:14.304 --> 01:13:14.604
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:13:15.824 --> 01:13:17.605
[SPEAKER_01]: So best rap album.

01:13:18.485 --> 01:13:19.586
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's revisit this.

01:13:20.966 --> 01:13:22.987
[SPEAKER_01]: So here are your nominees for the best rap album.

01:13:24.587 --> 01:13:26.728
[SPEAKER_01]: No way out, puff daddy and the family,

01:13:33.875 --> 01:13:39.797
[SPEAKER_01]: life after death, notorious BIG, and Wu Tang forever, the Wu Tang clan.

01:13:41.077 --> 01:13:51.700
[SPEAKER_01]: Now to me, there's one album specifically that stands out above all of them, and it's the big Y album.

01:13:53.120 --> 01:13:57.461
[SPEAKER_01]: The Y-cliff one I probably would put second just because I think that's like a great party album.

01:14:04.868 --> 01:14:10.074
[SPEAKER_01]: ODB goes up on stage, kind of a precursor to Kanye West.

01:14:10.154 --> 01:14:13.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Kanye West, yeah, at MTV Video Music Awards.

01:14:14.654 --> 01:14:19.136
[SPEAKER_01]: And ODB says, you know, we're going to be for the puff daddy or we like puff daddy or whatever.

01:14:19.156 --> 01:14:21.237
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, but Wu Tang is for the children.

01:14:21.837 --> 01:14:23.098
[SPEAKER_01]: What a wild state.

01:14:23.458 --> 01:14:24.919
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know about all that.

01:14:25.079 --> 01:14:31.662
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, first of all, dirty win on stage during somebody like it was like the record of the year acceptance speech, like it was ended to show.

01:14:32.602 --> 01:14:36.404
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had nothing to do with like category that he was in right.

01:14:38.224 --> 01:14:38.565
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,

01:14:40.532 --> 01:14:44.753
[SPEAKER_00]: you can't play me out about so as somebody's asshole shuttin' and say it's for the children.

01:14:47.113 --> 01:14:50.594
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but I don't, like that's what it's so wacky about it.

01:14:50.634 --> 01:14:52.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it wasn't for the children.

01:14:53.095 --> 01:14:54.555
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was definitely not for the children.

01:14:54.635 --> 01:14:56.895
[SPEAKER_01]: They, not for the children.

01:14:56.975 --> 01:15:02.236
[SPEAKER_01]: They were a hip-hop crew that was super successful.

01:15:03.097 --> 01:15:07.558
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like, I wish I knew what he was actually trying to do.

01:15:10.584 --> 01:15:13.066
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just somebody who was a little unhinged.

01:15:14.287 --> 01:15:15.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Wanted to get some stage time.

01:15:15.988 --> 01:15:18.090
[SPEAKER_00]: In hindsight, they're costing a lot of money.

01:15:18.770 --> 01:15:22.553
[SPEAKER_01]: In hindsight, who should have won that Grammy?

01:15:22.693 --> 01:15:23.394
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give it to Biggie.

01:15:23.754 --> 01:15:30.138
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think you're spot on like that Biggie album, I think, just probably the best why club would have been second.

01:15:31.580 --> 01:15:32.420
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe who third?

01:15:33.941 --> 01:15:38.465
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and you know, look, I know way out, it's,

01:15:39.408 --> 01:15:51.256
[SPEAKER_00]: It is hard for me to separate that album from Puppy, but I played that album like crazy back in the day.

01:15:52.497 --> 01:15:57.520
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think it was like a great record, but it definitely had some joints on it.

01:15:57.640 --> 01:16:04.805
[SPEAKER_01]: The no-skips ranking for that album would be a little lower, but it'd be like a Sarah like three or four songs that

01:16:05.932 --> 01:16:06.272
[SPEAKER_01]: I think.

01:16:07.053 --> 01:16:12.016
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, any song on that album that Biggie's on is ridiculous.

01:16:13.236 --> 01:16:14.477
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, let's look this up.

01:16:14.537 --> 01:16:17.059
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that this is a Sean Puffy Combs.

01:16:17.579 --> 01:16:21.481
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to look at the track listing for it.

01:16:21.521 --> 01:16:21.681
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.

01:16:22.282 --> 01:16:26.064
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be like, you know, a victory victory.

01:16:26.264 --> 01:16:26.784
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm 100% in on.

01:16:26.804 --> 01:16:26.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:16:29.238 --> 01:16:33.119
[SPEAKER_01]: been around the world is solid.

01:16:33.299 --> 01:16:35.319
[SPEAKER_01]: It also had a remix.

01:16:35.379 --> 01:16:39.160
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like way different than that.

01:16:40.500 --> 01:16:49.742
[SPEAKER_01]: Some bad ones, too, though, don't stop what you're doing is like him just trying to re-figure a different song and make it a hit for him.

01:16:49.942 --> 01:16:50.802
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:16:50.862 --> 01:16:52.963
[SPEAKER_01]: What you're going to do, I don't remember that.

01:16:53.243 --> 01:16:54.783
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know was kind of interesting?

01:16:55.614 --> 01:16:56.756
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, young geez.

01:16:56.936 --> 01:17:00.560
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you, baby with uh, who's my guy that's on the baby.

01:17:00.681 --> 01:17:01.962
[SPEAKER_00]: Black rock.

01:17:02.082 --> 01:17:02.363
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:17:02.543 --> 01:17:02.943
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

01:17:03.724 --> 01:17:05.386
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about the Benjamin's of course.

01:17:05.887 --> 01:17:06.127
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:17:06.928 --> 01:17:08.791
[SPEAKER_01]: Pain is him trying to be too pop.

01:17:10.192 --> 01:17:12.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, is this the is this the end?

01:17:13.688 --> 01:17:29.345
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... i don't like that version where i got the power that was terrible friend that that was terrible send your rea that was pretty interesting if we're like a puff a puff solo song he's even trying to speak in spanish um...

01:17:30.332 --> 01:17:34.816
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was probably his most interesting song where nobody else is on it, but him.

01:17:35.597 --> 01:17:38.039
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I'll be missing you, of course.

01:17:39.060 --> 01:17:42.442
[SPEAKER_01]: And look, I cannot disc, can't nobody hold me down.

01:17:42.723 --> 01:17:43.804
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I,

01:17:45.134 --> 01:17:49.775
[SPEAKER_01]: when that song came out, I definitely played and played and played and played and played it.

01:17:49.795 --> 01:17:50.315
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:17:50.935 --> 01:18:01.858
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there's like five or six songs that I very, I remember playing a ton, and I would probably still play victory because Busta is crazy on that song.

01:18:03.058 --> 01:18:06.539
[SPEAKER_01]: And Biggie, I like Biggie's rhyme on that song, too.

01:18:07.859 --> 01:18:08.139
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:18:08.219 --> 01:18:09.199
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah.

01:18:10.980 --> 01:18:11.300
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

01:18:12.602 --> 01:18:36.856
[SPEAKER_01]: So the passing of ODB November 13, 2004, two days before his 36th birthday, he collapsed and died at a Rizzas recording studio after complaining of chest pains and autopsy found a combination of cocaine and prescription pain killer trauma doll in his system.

01:18:36.976 --> 01:18:39.398
[SPEAKER_01]: The death was ruled accidental.

01:18:40.818 --> 01:18:45.601
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a decent amount of trouble around this time.

01:18:45.681 --> 01:18:48.544
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember thinking like, man, it was all sorts of shit.

01:18:48.704 --> 01:18:50.585
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing, he's getting this thing.

01:18:51.065 --> 01:19:02.954
[SPEAKER_00]: He was wondering, run, he had like, I mean, it was, you know, yeah, it was some like, whereas Waldo shit happened in, it was crazy.

01:19:03.274 --> 01:19:07.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and everybody else is still around, which is fantastic.

01:19:07.637 --> 01:19:09.899
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see these dudes show up at,

01:19:11.125 --> 01:19:12.846
[SPEAKER_01]: Shows when they're in their 70s, man.

01:19:13.527 --> 01:19:14.787
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're on tour right now.

01:19:15.027 --> 01:19:16.548
[SPEAKER_01]: Method man still going to be buffed out.

01:19:17.109 --> 01:19:19.790
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're on tour right now with bone thugs.

01:19:19.850 --> 01:19:24.813
[SPEAKER_00]: This is supposed to be like the last routine tour, although when somebody needs money, it's going to happen again.

01:19:25.273 --> 01:19:27.095
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was fortunate enough to see them.

01:19:27.515 --> 01:19:30.036
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw a routine performing with the roots, actually.

01:19:30.056 --> 01:19:32.638
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, uh, maybe like 10 years ago.

01:19:33.058 --> 01:19:35.620
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, I think we got like five of them.

01:19:37.021 --> 01:19:37.901
[SPEAKER_00]: it wasn't online.

01:19:38.742 --> 01:19:39.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Met was there.

01:19:40.363 --> 01:19:41.124
[SPEAKER_00]: Ray was there.

01:19:41.184 --> 01:19:42.745
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think those face was there.

01:19:44.567 --> 01:19:49.811
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think most two tank shows are kind of like who's going to show up.

01:19:49.951 --> 01:19:50.211
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:19:50.832 --> 01:19:51.072
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:19:51.492 --> 01:19:55.015
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the hard part is if one of your favorite is not there.

01:19:55.035 --> 01:19:55.355
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't.

01:19:55.515 --> 01:19:55.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

01:19:56.136 --> 01:19:56.256
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:19:56.276 --> 01:19:57.577
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to go to experience.

01:19:57.637 --> 01:19:57.837
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:19:57.897 --> 01:19:58.178
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:19:58.198 --> 01:19:58.458
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:19:58.478 --> 01:19:59.419
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, what the hell?

01:19:59.439 --> 01:20:00.660
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:03.242
[SPEAKER_01]: A couple of a little trivia tidbits here.

01:20:04.468 --> 01:20:10.071
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the pitched up y'all at the end of cream was a studio accident.

01:20:10.591 --> 01:20:15.274
[SPEAKER_01]: Rizza manually bent the pitch wheel while the tape was rolling and they kept it.

01:20:16.795 --> 01:20:23.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the blue sample on the original version of bring to ruckus couldn't get cleared forcing a late re-recording of the song before release.

01:20:24.819 --> 01:20:27.100
[SPEAKER_01]: ODB wants to tell the mastering engineer.

01:20:27.140 --> 01:20:29.161
[SPEAKER_01]: He was going to get a pack of cigarettes mid session.

01:20:29.202 --> 01:20:33.024
[SPEAKER_01]: And the next day called from Los Angeles having got straight to the airport.

01:20:34.775 --> 01:20:40.840
[SPEAKER_01]: My goodness, the album's masked, hoodie-clad cover photo happened partly by accident.

01:20:41.040 --> 01:20:46.405
[SPEAKER_01]: Several members didn't show up to the shoot, so masks were used to obscure who was and wasn't there.

01:20:47.026 --> 01:20:48.107
[SPEAKER_00]: That is nice.

01:20:48.407 --> 01:20:51.149
[SPEAKER_01]: Two managers even stood in for absent members.

01:20:53.852 --> 01:20:57.655
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, I think that is it.

01:21:00.344 --> 01:21:24.865
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this so, you know, this is, I wouldn't say it's a, it's a group that I would consider one of my favorites, but I just, I am just so mesmerized by their story because of how forward thinking they were in really figuring out how to get the most out of being rappers in the stage without getting screwed.

01:21:26.178 --> 01:21:26.678
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

01:21:27.299 --> 01:21:47.020
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't do a tears on this one just because, you know, there's only really two albums to me as far as the group, though I'd be interested to to where would you put the so like what would you consider like the tippy tippy top solo stuff alongside their very first album.

01:21:47.858 --> 01:21:54.700
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Iron Man and Liquid Swords are probably my two favorite.

01:21:54.880 --> 01:21:57.421
[SPEAKER_00]: Cuban links, I don't really listen to that much anymore.

01:21:57.481 --> 01:22:08.545
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, thematically it's kind of not my jam, but, you know, like, Jesus first two albums are both dope.

01:22:09.005 --> 01:22:11.026
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, Ghost Faze had a long run.

01:22:11.046 --> 01:22:15.868
[SPEAKER_00]: Where actually I think his first album is excellent and then his album's actually got better.

01:22:17.255 --> 01:22:29.244
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so, you know, if you're going to have, uh, any member of Wu Tang, like their solo work, like you can probably hit up like five or six different both face albums, you're going to find a bunch of dope stuff on them.

01:22:30.521 --> 01:22:30.761
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

01:22:31.341 --> 01:22:31.621
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.

01:22:32.702 --> 01:22:34.823
[SPEAKER_01]: So that'll be it.

01:22:34.843 --> 01:22:41.385
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk a little bit more about what those dudes are doing now on our top five episode.

01:22:41.425 --> 01:22:50.289
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll go over our top five favorite Wu Tang tracks as well as we're considering also solo tracks from their albums.

01:22:50.309 --> 01:22:52.770
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll do a little bit of a mix there.

01:22:52.790 --> 01:22:53.790
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.

01:22:59.152 --> 01:23:03.261
[SPEAKER_01]: For Mike, I am WG, we will see you when we see you peace out.