Luther Vandross – Never Too Much: The Voice, The Career & The Man | 50 For 50

WEBVTT

00:10.148 --> 00:13.289
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we are back on 50 for 50.

00:14.509 --> 00:16.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike, we are talking about Luther.

00:17.450 --> 00:22.731
[SPEAKER_01]: We are, and I also want to say for the record, I think this is our first episode is actual 50 year olds.

00:23.431 --> 00:24.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is.

00:24.972 --> 00:26.032
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit of a break.

00:26.072 --> 00:27.552
[SPEAKER_00]: We had reported some stuff.

00:27.572 --> 00:32.333
[SPEAKER_00]: We put out our new kids on the block episode as the last one.

00:33.154 --> 00:35.874
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're back with our 50 for 50 episodes.

00:35.934 --> 00:38.155
[SPEAKER_00]: And Luther is such a big,

00:39.278 --> 00:39.778
[SPEAKER_00]: topic.

00:39.798 --> 00:45.119
[SPEAKER_00]: He is a discography is so vast.

00:45.139 --> 00:46.180
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many.

00:46.900 --> 00:47.220
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

00:47.960 --> 00:53.442
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you get into the 90s, I will talk about this as we go through his discography.

00:54.942 --> 00:58.623
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of wonder, do you think,

01:00.375 --> 01:05.036
[SPEAKER_00]: hip-hop kind of ruined the idea of Luther in the 90s.

01:05.196 --> 01:14.638
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what he was and the things that he did well, it's almost like hip-hop came, the sound change, and Luther was like, no word, like still doing this thing.

01:15.739 --> 01:24.521
[SPEAKER_01]: I think to an extent it was hip-hop, and then the other piece of it was R&B got way more sexual,

01:30.420 --> 01:44.792
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you have the arkelles of the world, right, who were making like slow jams, but they weren't sensitive or like they were very, very direct in their approach.

01:45.933 --> 01:50.998
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think, and I also think that Luther was, he spent the 90s kind of chasing hits.

01:51.954 --> 01:52.294
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

01:52.755 --> 01:59.402
[SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing is, as I went through the discography, I'm listening to a lot of these albums in the 90s.

02:00.282 --> 02:11.293
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I can't even tell what the single is on the songs are very similar and they're very well done, but there's not one that necessarily stands out.

02:11.374 --> 02:13.195
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, he will find that.

02:14.276 --> 02:29.865
[SPEAKER_00]: in on certain albums and then in the you know in the late eight late 90s early 2000s he does adapt the sound a little bit Yeah, and and you know before his passing I thought he had kind of found this like really great like

02:31.125 --> 02:56.871
[SPEAKER_00]: a great space for him to wear the decade maybe the 90s forgot him a little bit and then in the 2000s he was like I figured it out here's what I can do radio will play this the fans were there like I'm a little bit more updated and then of course he passes away right well he got sick and then you know for two years he was sick and then he passed away

02:58.277 --> 03:01.281
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you watch that Luther documentary that CNN had put out?

03:01.682 --> 03:03.124
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched that shit the day it came out.

03:03.625 --> 03:03.925
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

03:04.426 --> 03:11.036
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what's crazy about that is he's actually interviewed post stroke.

03:13.141 --> 03:40.332
[SPEAKER_00]: and he doesn't look fantastic like he's completely done up with make up and he's not able to really speak all that well but he holds himself up and he looks okay and if you watch that interview your thought is okay he's on the men like I think you know maybe he's not a sick you know maybe he can't continue his career but the man is going to survive and then it just doesn't happen any passes away right yeah that's really sad yeah no it was definitely a shock

03:41.855 --> 03:50.142
[SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, let's start off like we normally do, but just kind of the year in music and then we'll circle back to his origin story.

03:51.123 --> 03:58.609
[SPEAKER_00]: He really has this like, fantastic kind of upbringing in the music industry.

03:59.410 --> 04:01.091
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sort of like, so many things.

04:01.471 --> 04:04.334
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a journey to become a solo star.

04:04.594 --> 04:08.057
[SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, he does, he likes, excels it so many things.

04:08.097 --> 04:08.678
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like,

04:09.658 --> 04:30.944
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's almost like a video game and say you got to pass this thing to get to this thing and he's like, okay, I'm going to do the jingles and then you pass this thing to this thing is like, okay, I'm going to you know work with David Bowie and then oh, here we go, you know, solo out so it's like this is really awesome journey through everything like mastering everything until he gets to be the soul artist, but we'll get that in second.

04:31.284 --> 04:32.065
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

04:32.085 --> 04:32.305
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, 1981.

04:35.559 --> 04:41.722
[SPEAKER_00]: When we go, when we look back this far in time, some of the things that happened just boggles my mind.

04:42.182 --> 04:45.444
[SPEAKER_00]: This first one is definitely one of those things.

04:45.564 --> 04:54.908
[SPEAKER_00]: Gen. 18, 1981, Wendy O'Williams of the Plasmatics is arrested in Milwaukee for simulating masturbation with a sledgehammer on stage.

04:56.189 --> 05:02.292
[SPEAKER_00]: The police tackle her, pin her to the floor, and she gets cut over the eye.

05:04.425 --> 05:05.087
[SPEAKER_00]: What the hell?

05:05.768 --> 05:07.894
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was a different time.

05:11.073 --> 05:36.420
[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of shit that people get away with on stage now, you know, particularly if you like move more towards like the Bible belt and the south, like you couldn't get away with none of that stuff like I remember, you know, when we were teenagers or young teenagers Bobby Brown getting arrested, but basically just like hump in the stage, and that seems so team now when you think of like

05:37.516 --> 05:46.043
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything that is happening since and what people able to get away with now, but it is, you know, back then like the, you know, morality police was real.

05:47.263 --> 05:48.144
[SPEAKER_00]: Milwaukee, man.

05:48.845 --> 05:50.686
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to say that's not even a Bible belt.

05:51.947 --> 05:52.988
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the Midwest.

05:53.828 --> 05:57.831
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, man, the funds was funds was getting it in and Milwaukee.

05:57.972 --> 06:04.997
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I guess only the funds was was allowed to get it in and walk in Milwaukee back in those days.

06:06.337 --> 06:08.418
[SPEAKER_00]: February 9th, 1981.

06:08.479 --> 06:21.507
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil Collins releases first solo album face value opening track in the air tonight popularizes the reverb drum sound album ends up a smashing success for Phil.

06:22.027 --> 06:24.049
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to we're going to talk about Phil Collins.

06:24.089 --> 06:24.289
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

06:25.700 --> 06:46.496
[SPEAKER_00]: February 25th, the 23rd annual Grammys in New York hosted by Paul Simon, Christopher Cross with his self-titled album and a single sailing, he becomes the first artist to win all four general field awards in a single ceremony, controversially beating Pink Floyd's the wall for album of the year.

06:47.677 --> 06:51.780
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that only maybe two artists have done that since.

06:55.853 --> 06:57.954
[SPEAKER_01]: in like Nora Jones or something like that?

06:58.014 --> 06:59.435
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, or Billie Eilish?

07:00.215 --> 07:00.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.

07:00.935 --> 07:03.496
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it hasn't happened very much since.

07:04.077 --> 07:07.678
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Christopher Cross, like you love Yacht Rock, that first album is dope.

07:09.019 --> 07:12.500
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have much of a career afterwards, but you know what, he was just on Quest Long's podcast.

07:12.980 --> 07:13.381
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really?

07:13.721 --> 07:16.562
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I had one of the most recent episodes, maybe like three weeks ago.

07:18.423 --> 07:23.185
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was growing up, I knew the song because the song is very famous.

07:24.230 --> 07:45.861
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it the art that he does the Arthur theme or something as well right there's another really famous song here and so I just figure I'm like, okay, this dude is cool But the like everything after that people's making fun of him constantly right and I mean he he wasn't like the handsomeest dude in the world or anything, but yeah, he was kind of a child

07:47.933 --> 07:54.803
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you know what, he's still here in 2026 and St. covered sailing on their first album.

07:55.344 --> 07:59.110
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm pretty sure Christopher Cross got a lot of money off that publishing.

07:59.891 --> 08:03.557
[SPEAKER_01]: deservedly so yeah, so you know, Christopher Cross is all right.

08:04.653 --> 08:21.914
[SPEAKER_00]: March 14, suffering from bleeding ulcers, air clapped is admitted to United Hospital in St. Paul, Minnesota is suffering from bleeding racism, too, is 60 city tour of the U.S. is canceled and he remains in hospital for a month.

08:22.675 --> 08:27.797
[SPEAKER_00]: and the problems do not end for Eric Clapton in 1981 as we will talk about.

08:28.377 --> 08:45.724
[SPEAKER_00]: March 21st, yellow magic orchestra releases their fourth studio album, BGM, and the album is the first to make use of the Roland TR 808 drum machine, which would go on to become an influential device in both electronic dance music and hip hop.

08:46.324 --> 08:48.645
[SPEAKER_01]: And even beyond hip hop, we talked about the new kids

08:52.815 --> 08:53.776
[SPEAKER_00]: the 808 man.

08:53.816 --> 08:55.617
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you ever see that documentary on the 808?

08:56.077 --> 08:57.718
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I've heard about it and I should watch it.

08:57.838 --> 09:08.025
[SPEAKER_00]: I just have what it was kind of like if you didn't find it like when it came out, I think you had to like download it from iTunes or something like the other way to see it, but it's actually pretty good.

09:08.045 --> 09:09.006
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that long though.

09:09.046 --> 09:12.308
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like a super deep look, but it's kind of fun.

09:12.868 --> 09:13.088
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you

09:18.370 --> 09:24.995
[SPEAKER_00]: March 27th, the crazy man Aussie Osborne bites the head off a dove at a CBS record label gathering in L.A.

09:25.696 --> 09:25.956
[SPEAKER_01]: The hell.

09:25.976 --> 09:28.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't he have to get like a rabies shot for that or something like that?

09:29.499 --> 09:30.380
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go in on here.

09:31.501 --> 09:41.228
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody, somebody gets tackled and arrested for pretending to put a sledgehammer between their legs and this man can bite your head off a bird.

09:41.449 --> 09:42.249
[SPEAKER_01]: A live bird.

09:42.750 --> 09:44.591
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and that's some scent that he has shit.

09:46.132 --> 09:46.433
[SPEAKER_00]: April 11th.

09:47.318 --> 09:55.902
[SPEAKER_00]: Ben Hailland Eddie Van Hailland, Mary's actress, Valerie Birdenelli, she was on the cover of a magazine recently.

09:56.923 --> 09:58.864
[SPEAKER_00]: She's still, she's still doing a thing.

09:58.904 --> 09:59.905
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, still doing a thing.

10:00.345 --> 10:00.845
[SPEAKER_01]: Good for her.

10:01.185 --> 10:11.811
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Eric Clapton again, April 22nd, taken to the hospital suffering from bruise ribs and elacerated shin following a car accident in Seattle, Washington.

10:11.871 --> 10:13.792
[SPEAKER_00]: So in a matter of five weeks,

10:15.154 --> 10:22.218
[SPEAKER_00]: He has bleeding ulcers as to kill his tour and then gets in a car accident and it's back to the hospital.

10:22.478 --> 10:26.620
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a great year for that.

10:27.340 --> 10:38.606
[SPEAKER_00]: British Volklashina Easton, May 2nd, hits number one in the US with morning train nine to five, following a swift rise to fame as the result of a reality TV show.

10:38.746 --> 10:39.487
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that show?

10:40.513 --> 10:42.214
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it must have been a British show.

10:42.494 --> 10:44.715
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't care in the US.

10:44.955 --> 10:46.816
[SPEAKER_00]: Reality TV in 81, man.

10:47.216 --> 10:49.937
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, the UK was ahead of its time, I guess.

10:50.338 --> 10:54.479
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, funny story is she in the eastern also won the best new artist, Grammy.

10:55.040 --> 10:57.001
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the people she beat was Luther.

10:57.721 --> 10:58.861
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha ha.

10:59.642 --> 11:04.784
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is crazy when you think of Luther Vandros and no shade you think of she in the eastern, you're like, what happened?

11:05.124 --> 11:06.165
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

11:06.205 --> 11:06.565
[SPEAKER_00]: You know.

11:07.578 --> 11:17.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Big part of Luther's career was that Grammy that just he could not get it for 10 years into his career.

11:17.165 --> 11:17.925
[SPEAKER_00]: And he finally on it.

11:18.306 --> 11:32.516
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Diana Ross may 14th signs with RCA, leaving Motown, 20 million dollar deal is the most lucrative recording contract in history at the time.

11:32.536 --> 11:32.616
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

11:34.950 --> 11:45.861
[SPEAKER_01]: that's uh... that's big money and idea was to hear what is twenty million dollars what is nineteen eighty one twenty million dollars in twenty twenty six get what do people sign for today

11:46.650 --> 12:04.125
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the people don't even really sign, it's a, I mean, the way that contracts are made is is so different now, the way the music industry is so different now, like, like if Taylor's a free agent, like how does she negotiate her next deal, like what goes into all that just give me all the goddamn money.

12:05.126 --> 12:08.048
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty sure Taylor just pulls up and is like blank check, please.

12:08.689 --> 12:09.129
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.

12:11.011 --> 12:20.176
[SPEAKER_00]: May 30th, a reformed the human league have their first commercial success as the sound of the crowd claims to number 12 on the UK singles chart.

12:21.457 --> 12:23.558
[SPEAKER_01]: Being another year before they blow up into U.S.

12:25.800 --> 12:44.647
[SPEAKER_00]: And July 13th, Duran Duran released girls on film, accompanied by a highly controversial music video that is censored for airplay on MTV, banned by the BBC, becomes a band's first big hit eventually peeking at number five on the UK chart during an 11 week run.

12:47.368 --> 12:52.930
[SPEAKER_00]: August 1, MTV broadcast for the very first time in the US playing

12:54.141 --> 12:56.202
[SPEAKER_00]: The Dio killed the radio star.

12:58.503 --> 13:01.605
[SPEAKER_01]: Whistlanded, when would you have gotten MTV again?

13:02.185 --> 13:02.766
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dude.

13:03.426 --> 13:13.332
[SPEAKER_01]: So, because I lived in so many different places, I lived in several different places as a child, as a young adult.

13:13.852 --> 13:19.815
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have MTV regularly until I was growing to 1994 when I moved out on my own.

13:22.393 --> 13:30.935
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my, when I lived in Michigan, my mom and my step that had cable and their package did have MTV as part of it, but I was not allowed to watch MTV.

13:31.595 --> 13:33.275
[SPEAKER_00]: So to how did you sneak it?

13:33.936 --> 13:37.416
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I didn't sneak it like, no, I would get to watch BET.

13:37.957 --> 13:38.637
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

13:39.077 --> 13:42.558
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I did, there was like, it's funny.

13:43.018 --> 13:43.698
[SPEAKER_01]: I can think of.

13:44.823 --> 13:52.225
[SPEAKER_01]: like the summer of 1985 where like we went down the floor and we stayed with like the cousin or whatever.

13:52.645 --> 13:57.067
[SPEAKER_01]: And that cousin had MTV and VH1 and I just sat in that room for days on end.

13:57.827 --> 14:00.728
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a crack at it just watching MTV and VH1.

14:01.888 --> 14:05.429
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I didn't regularly watch MTV until the 90s.

14:06.329 --> 14:07.190
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it, got it.

14:09.110 --> 14:22.093
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right, October 27th, the British phonograph industry takes out a newspaper ad unveiling its new slogan, home taping is killing music.

14:23.253 --> 14:27.454
[SPEAKER_00]: The ads advocate a levy on blank cassette tapes.

14:29.114 --> 14:30.235
[SPEAKER_00]: They were trying to hit you with the blank

14:38.499 --> 14:51.032
[SPEAKER_01]: the music industry would learn their lesson years later when streaming or when, you know, Napster became the thing and people realized that, you know, what people realized a lot of things.

14:51.413 --> 14:57.059
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, the idea of paying the from music is so foreign to folks now.

14:58.868 --> 15:06.642
[SPEAKER_00]: November 18th, while sitting in Tom's restaurant in New York City, Suzanne Vega composes the song, Tom's Diner.

15:06.662 --> 15:11.932
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that sound come out?

15:13.207 --> 15:18.909
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, initially, I think it comes out in like 80, 687, but that remix that was super popular was 1990.

15:19.009 --> 15:20.170
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in high school.

15:20.250 --> 15:20.390
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

15:20.410 --> 15:21.190
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I thought.

15:21.570 --> 15:21.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

15:22.490 --> 15:31.174
[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, an estimated 35 million people around the world watch a live satellite transmission of a Rob Stewart concert at the LA Forum.

15:31.994 --> 15:39.196
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the first broadcast of its contents Elvis Presley's Aloha from Hawaii, special in 73, so to been on December 18.

15:39.337 --> 15:39.417
[SPEAKER_00]: So.

15:41.679 --> 15:45.762
[SPEAKER_00]: you people are watching a concert essentially on television.

15:46.503 --> 15:49.705
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, which is something that was very unique at the time.

15:49.745 --> 16:00.594
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, you wouldn't see whole concerts on regular TV, or even cable TV, by the way, you know, it did not kill.

16:01.544 --> 16:06.786
[SPEAKER_00]: the touring concert business, putting their concerts on television, did not.

16:07.307 --> 16:09.608
[SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

16:10.108 --> 16:10.908
[SPEAKER_00]: They tried to do it.

16:10.948 --> 16:14.530
[SPEAKER_00]: They tried to put it on paper view, didn't really work.

16:14.810 --> 16:26.375
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can do the Taylor thing where you do the movie and you sell, you know, some live stuff where you put it on in the plus, and the hard course of the hard course of the watch it.

16:26.395 --> 16:26.555
[SPEAKER_00]: But,

16:27.337 --> 16:29.898
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not killing, you're not killing that concert business.

16:30.279 --> 16:33.601
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, Rob Stewart, take it back in 1981, probably only cost like $20.

16:35.021 --> 16:35.922
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.

16:38.864 --> 16:41.265
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so let's talk about Luther.

16:41.825 --> 16:42.686
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about Luther.

16:43.106 --> 16:47.389
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Luther, do you know what Luther's a middle name is?

16:47.829 --> 16:52.972
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, Luther's middle name is Ron Zoni.

16:53.652 --> 16:55.093
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the story behind that?

16:57.781 --> 17:09.772
[SPEAKER_01]: The story is that Luther's mom, when she was pregnant with Luther, the only food that she was able to eat and not throw up was Ron Zoni.

17:10.152 --> 17:11.073
[SPEAKER_01]: We passed the pasta.

17:11.753 --> 17:17.698
[SPEAKER_01]: So because of that, she named her son, Luther, Ron Zoni, Vandross.

17:18.699 --> 17:19.660
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.

17:20.000 --> 17:20.241
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

17:20.741 --> 17:21.522
[SPEAKER_00]: That is amazing.

17:25.497 --> 17:34.100
[SPEAKER_00]: The, when you look at that name, you know, like I, I was like, I wasn't sure what Ron Zoni was at first when I saw it.

17:34.781 --> 17:37.942
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it exists anymore, but then I was like

17:39.129 --> 17:42.832
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, then the Luther name is like a strong name, right?

17:42.852 --> 17:44.734
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I mean, he's named after his father.

17:44.934 --> 17:45.895
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, after his father.

17:46.356 --> 17:51.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if your name is Luther, like, you got a, this is strong name.

17:51.800 --> 17:54.863
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to kind of put your chest out a little bit when you walk around.

17:55.184 --> 17:55.404
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.

17:55.544 --> 17:56.104
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um,

17:56.945 --> 17:57.545
[SPEAKER_00]: You have run Zony.

17:57.565 --> 17:58.946
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, what is this?

17:59.026 --> 18:03.387
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this like a family name that somebody's middle names as somebody's last name.

18:03.607 --> 18:04.867
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the name of some spaghetti.

18:05.167 --> 18:05.627
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.

18:06.408 --> 18:06.708
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

18:06.748 --> 18:07.508
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the good man.

18:08.048 --> 18:11.909
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess maybe some people have named middle name their children.

18:12.249 --> 18:19.791
[SPEAKER_01]: Penay or who knows or whatever the ragu or the big ragu talk about.

18:19.811 --> 18:20.952
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, talking about Milwaukee.

18:22.272 --> 18:25.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so like you said, he's named after his father.

18:26.434 --> 18:49.102
[SPEAKER_00]: Father passes away when Luther is really young, and fast forwarding to the end of his career, but the song, dance with my father, directly, direct response to this, happening when he's just, he's just a young guy, and I guess, did he say that his mother like never really met, or,

18:51.159 --> 19:00.945
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if she got didn't get married or there was she didn't really connect with anybody but there's something about like the mom just never really found another another dude.

19:01.432 --> 19:01.672
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

19:01.872 --> 19:02.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

19:02.232 --> 19:09.815
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, the way I remember it, and there's a really awesome book about him called The Life and Long of Luke the Vandros.

19:10.635 --> 19:12.335
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget the name of the gentleman that wrote it.

19:12.355 --> 19:19.518
[SPEAKER_01]: I think his name is Craig Seymourne, but it goes really in depth into Luther's life.

19:20.378 --> 19:23.359
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, Luther's dad died suddenly.

19:23.379 --> 19:27.280
[SPEAKER_01]: I, from the way I remember the story is that, you know, they went to the beach.

19:28.375 --> 19:32.538
[SPEAKER_01]: He came home, he, you know, went to diabetic shock, and passed away.

19:35.180 --> 19:44.748
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I'm sure it was jarring, I mean, obviously it's jarring for a kid when your father died suddenly, but, you know, probably jarring for the entire family.

19:44.828 --> 19:48.731
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, yeah, his, his, Luther's mom never remarried.

19:50.252 --> 19:51.973
[SPEAKER_01]: I probably, because she was busy raising kids.

19:51.993 --> 19:53.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe she had four or five children.

19:54.608 --> 20:05.474
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, when when you're a black woman in 1950s, 1960s New York City, and you're trying to raise all these children, like you have to out for a man, probably not.

20:06.574 --> 20:09.156
[SPEAKER_00]: His sister was in music business as well, right?

20:09.336 --> 20:14.699
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she was a member of, I believe, a group called The Crests that made that song 16 Candles.

20:16.420 --> 20:20.122
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there's a definitely talent in that family.

20:20.142 --> 20:20.642
[SPEAKER_00]: Family, yeah.

20:22.149 --> 20:24.956
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he's a giant like.

20:26.783 --> 20:50.619
[SPEAKER_00]: student of Motown, specifically like Aritha, the girl groups, and he kind of just becomes like a student of the game and very early just has a taking and understands music, the understands his voice, the arrangements, somebody called him like a musical scholar at a very

20:55.507 --> 20:58.488
[SPEAKER_01]: was always very effusive about his favorite artists.

20:59.248 --> 21:13.031
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, certainly we've talked a lot about loving Diana Ross and loving Dion Warwick, loving Arita, loving the temptations, like that whole, like 60s black music, like he was in love with all that stuff.

21:14.332 --> 21:19.933
[SPEAKER_00]: So he goes to Howard Tafft, how William Howard Tafft high school in the Bronx.

21:21.169 --> 21:28.295
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he enrolls at Western Michigan, but then he drops out to just get into the music game.

21:29.376 --> 21:37.863
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think his first, like the first big thing that he did was he wrote a song for the whiz.

21:39.064 --> 21:41.766
[SPEAKER_01]: Well before that, there was David Bowie.

21:42.066 --> 21:43.427
[SPEAKER_00]: The David Bowie thing was before that.

21:43.507 --> 21:49.973
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Bowie was his first real big break where he had, you know, he came up

21:51.450 --> 21:54.852
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, his first real big break with Sesame Street.

21:57.014 --> 22:04.459
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the first season of Sesame Street, he's on it, singing, this is like 1969, 1970s.

22:04.539 --> 22:07.621
[SPEAKER_01]: So Luther's maybe 20 years old, 2020.

22:08.001 --> 22:18.468
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so from Sesame Street, he came up in this kind of like uptown, music scene, you know, spent a lot of time with the Apollo.

22:19.975 --> 22:23.717
[SPEAKER_01]: And just kind of like made friends who were all sort of aspiring singers and musicians.

22:24.417 --> 22:33.562
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of those people was a guitarist by the name Carlos Alamar and David Bowie hired Carlos to be his guitarist.

22:33.742 --> 22:40.886
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically Bowie was like, yo, do you have any friends and Luther would come with Carlos to the studio?

22:41.366 --> 22:43.747
[SPEAKER_01]: And Bowie heard Luther singing something.

22:43.767 --> 22:47.890
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, yeah, I want you and that was kind of his big break.

22:48.730 --> 22:49.731
[SPEAKER_01]: his first big break.

22:50.471 --> 22:57.475
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I have that as mid 70s and I have the Wizz thing as early 70s, but that those dates could possibly be wrong.

22:57.795 --> 23:04.079
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the Wizz premiered after the Bowie thing.

23:04.479 --> 23:06.140
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not totally sure of the timeline.

23:06.701 --> 23:11.483
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe the music that like the Broadway show the Wizz was maybe like 74 75.

23:12.464 --> 23:14.245
[SPEAKER_01]: That Bowie album came out in 74.

23:14.945 --> 23:15.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it, got it.

23:15.786 --> 23:15.966
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

23:18.107 --> 23:39.018
[SPEAKER_00]: And the, the bowie thing is interesting because, you know, there's this discussion about Luther and his willingness to kind of be okay singing background and I think it was a bird a flag who was like, I can't just let you keep singing like you need to do your own thing.

23:39.898 --> 24:02.440
[SPEAKER_00]: and like she's she I mean she was even on that dock that Luther dock where she was like I didn't actually fire him I was just like I need you to like stop being but behind everybody and get out in front because you have a gift right and the bowie thing uh in the dock he says David Bowie would have him perform as the opening act for some of the shows

24:03.342 --> 24:05.604
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, they didn't know who I was.

24:05.944 --> 24:09.146
[SPEAKER_00]: They're booing because they want Bowie, right?

24:09.206 --> 24:13.149
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, man, you're killing me by making me go out there.

24:13.249 --> 24:17.212
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said that David Bowie said, nope, this is this is just you get in your reps, man.

24:17.232 --> 24:20.954
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you need these are, you know, reps to these to this audience.

24:21.215 --> 24:26.138
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can win over this audience just by your vocal talent, like that's, you know, that's part of it.

24:26.178 --> 24:28.080
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was really interesting.

24:28.440 --> 24:29.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, man.

24:31.945 --> 24:38.247
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about, I mentioned it, but the jingles, he's doing lots of jingles.

24:38.287 --> 24:41.107
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a famous Kentucky fried chicken one.

24:41.167 --> 24:43.408
[SPEAKER_00]: There was some beer ones, I think.

24:43.808 --> 24:45.948
[SPEAKER_00]: A beer that I don't even think exists anymore.

24:46.449 --> 24:47.329
[SPEAKER_00]: Low and brown.

24:48.549 --> 24:51.610
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be very surprised if low and brown still exist.

24:53.170 --> 24:54.671
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a blast from the past.

25:01.125 --> 25:27.370
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... is it's distributed in Canada still wow but not distributed in the u.s. anymore ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

25:28.017 --> 25:31.699
[SPEAKER_00]: He does this thing where he finances his own demos.

25:32.419 --> 25:37.062
[SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of holds out for like the best deal.

25:37.342 --> 25:39.563
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants full creative control.

25:40.023 --> 25:41.484
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants to handle everything.

25:41.564 --> 25:45.206
[SPEAKER_00]: He wants this record to happen on his terms.

25:46.306 --> 25:54.470
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for someone who was kind of behind the singing background, as he pushes himself to the forefront, he really takes control.

25:54.630 --> 25:55.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Control.

25:55.210 --> 25:55.571
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

25:56.531 --> 26:16.756
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that Luther generated the capital to be able to finance his demo, not only was he on tour singing background for Roberta Flack and Bet Midler and, you know, all these different people, he was doing jingles and, you know, if you sing on the jingle, every time the commercial comes on TV, you get a little, you know, you get a royalty.

26:17.557 --> 26:18.777
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's making money off that.

26:19.377 --> 26:21.718
[SPEAKER_01]: And then on top of that he's a background singer,

26:22.911 --> 26:24.533
[SPEAKER_01]: on like a ton of hit records.

26:25.053 --> 26:32.981
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you talk about like freak out by sheik and we are family by sister sledge.

26:33.001 --> 26:39.207
[SPEAKER_01]: She's the greatest dancer, famed by Irene Cara enough is enough by Barbara Streisand and Donna Summer.

26:39.547 --> 26:42.330
[SPEAKER_01]: Like all these records have Luther singing background on them.

26:42.690 --> 26:43.851
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he's making bank.

26:44.752 --> 27:00.882
[SPEAKER_01]: as a jingle singer, as a background singer, as a tour background singer, and then like what really kind of blew him up and set him up for this solo career is there was a group called Change, which is like a disco group modeled kind of after Sheek.

27:01.902 --> 27:10.006
[SPEAKER_01]: and they had two big hits searching in the glow of love and Luther saying lead on those records and he was credited on as singing lead on those records.

27:10.327 --> 27:15.749
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of how like the general public first D. Lee got to know who Luther Vandras was.

27:16.590 --> 27:19.231
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's really at this interesting crossroads

27:20.772 --> 27:26.415
[SPEAKER_00]: like disco and post disco and where the genre R&B genre comes out of that.

27:26.735 --> 27:26.975
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

27:27.156 --> 27:34.860
[SPEAKER_00]: And like if you listen to never too much, it almost sounds more like a 70s album than an 80s album in some ways.

27:36.881 --> 27:38.782
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I mean, it definitely doesn't sound like thriller.

27:39.382 --> 27:40.083
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah.

27:40.363 --> 27:41.984
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but I think

27:43.075 --> 27:47.218
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I was thinking about this, I'm like, who are they trying to model this guy after, right?

27:47.238 --> 27:49.560
[SPEAKER_01]: Because disco was kind of out.

27:50.080 --> 27:51.341
[SPEAKER_01]: It could make a disco record.

27:52.001 --> 27:58.206
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you look at all the other black men that were popular in music at the time?

27:58.246 --> 27:59.247
[SPEAKER_01]: And he wasn't gonna be Mike.

28:00.115 --> 28:01.336
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't going to be Rick James.

28:02.016 --> 28:03.516
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't going to be Teddy Pendergrass.

28:04.137 --> 28:10.700
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he kind of had to, he kind of sat in that George Benson Lane where like he had a great voice.

28:11.080 --> 28:16.202
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of jazz he could tar on that first record, too, which is not on his subsequent records.

28:16.522 --> 28:19.864
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they were trying to kind of like stick him in that Lane a little bit.

28:21.584 --> 28:22.885
[SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of like,

28:24.460 --> 28:33.022
[SPEAKER_00]: can create his own lane, which would become like the quiet storm era and all that like he's a Jesus such a giant part of that.

28:33.662 --> 28:40.484
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I listen to the discography and we'll go through kind of, you know, a lot of the albums and just talk about how successful they were.

28:40.504 --> 28:43.285
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to ask you about this because I think

28:45.403 --> 28:54.569
[SPEAKER_00]: He was a very private person when it came to sexuality, when it came to just things about his person.

28:55.690 --> 28:59.152
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had to deal with the weight stuff because he's in the public eye.

28:59.192 --> 29:05.897
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see him growing and shrinking and getting skinny and then dealing with that and then getting bigger again.

29:06.637 --> 29:08.138
[SPEAKER_00]: But there was always a question about,

29:10.223 --> 29:13.984
[SPEAKER_00]: whether or not he was heterosexual or homosexual.

29:14.665 --> 29:16.425
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had to deal with that question.

29:16.445 --> 29:20.807
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would be very adamant that nobody's business but mine.

29:21.667 --> 29:26.589
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people could read into his answers in whatever way that they wanted to.

29:27.069 --> 29:34.852
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he passed away, patty lebel made some comments that you could take as, I mean, he was outed by a ton of people after he passed away.

29:34.932 --> 29:37.053
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even in our Seniors book, he outs him.

29:38.333 --> 29:49.061
[SPEAKER_00]: So my question to you, and this is not just Luther, this is everybody in the music industry who cannot be there true selves.

29:50.202 --> 29:52.544
[SPEAKER_00]: He is singing about love.

29:53.805 --> 29:57.208
[SPEAKER_00]: And in many cases, it is about love of a female.

29:58.669 --> 30:05.954
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like a frustration in thinking,

30:07.356 --> 30:23.167
[SPEAKER_00]: how I don't know if he found it hard or if he just saw it as sort of acting, but he's putting his soul into these songs and he's not able to be, not able to necessarily sing about the person he probably would have wanted to sing about.

30:23.187 --> 30:26.829
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, it's like a sadness hit me when I was listening to some of these songs.

30:27.530 --> 30:28.711
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a lot of his,

30:32.010 --> 30:41.382
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of his better known songs are a little sad, just to literally like the songs about longing, which is a universal concept, right?

30:41.402 --> 30:46.648
[SPEAKER_01]: You can be gay, straight, bisexual, asexual, whatever it is and still long for somebody.

30:47.169 --> 30:47.589
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't.

30:48.270 --> 31:12.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Like nothing is coming to mind immediately and I'm sure that there were some songs in which he was gender specific and mentioned, you know, she or her or like whatever, but I think a lot of his songs also are not gender specific, so again, like if you're not mentioning the gender of somebody you can apply that to whoever you want to apply it to, you know, the reality is it was the 80s.

31:14.488 --> 31:34.117
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, even until he passed away, there was really no precedent for recording artists that was like a mainstream recording artist that was out, particularly like a black person that was a mainstream recording artist that was out.

31:34.497 --> 31:38.559
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Frank Ocean is still only like 12, 13 years ago.

31:39.579 --> 31:43.101
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and you look at somebody like Latifa who's only out like now.

31:44.681 --> 31:52.323
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it has been active in the music business for 35 years, you know, it's just it's a difficult thing.

31:52.423 --> 31:53.544
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny.

31:53.684 --> 31:58.405
[SPEAKER_01]: I read comments on Reddit and stuff every now and then we're like, Oh, we knew he was gay and we wouldn't care.

31:59.105 --> 32:04.127
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lie because if Luther had come out at the height of his career.

32:05.472 --> 32:06.932
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of his career would not have happened.

32:07.633 --> 32:09.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it just would not have happened.

32:09.913 --> 32:14.835
[SPEAKER_01]: Elton John could get away with that because he was Elton John, and even Elton John didn't really come out until like the early 90s.

32:17.036 --> 32:20.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Luther, like, the rules are different when you black.

32:21.277 --> 32:23.978
[SPEAKER_01]: And also Luther's audience was primarily women.

32:24.938 --> 32:33.761
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't necessarily know that his woman fans saw him as like a sex symbol or anything like that.

32:37.470 --> 32:38.732
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, it's an interesting thing.

32:38.952 --> 32:47.725
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would love to hear from like an older black woman like when you what about Luther.

32:48.792 --> 32:50.313
[SPEAKER_01]: resonated so much with you.

32:50.473 --> 32:56.276
[SPEAKER_01]: And my guess is that they would say because his lyrics were so like sensitive and longing.

32:57.036 --> 33:01.779
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it wasn't just like, let me get you on the floor and like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

33:02.319 --> 33:07.922
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it came from a very like romantic, but also kind of like heartbroken kind of place.

33:08.162 --> 33:10.163
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, that none of that is gender specific.

33:10.884 --> 33:13.045
[SPEAKER_00]: Lots of songs of his that I noticed

33:19.012 --> 33:38.870
[SPEAKER_00]: him being the one who gets who the dude or the woman or whomever steals the the significant other from like it's like I can't have you because now you're with this person this person there's a lot of that in his in his music.

33:38.950 --> 33:41.032
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a lot of lost lost lost love.

33:41.472 --> 33:56.104
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and yeah, it just, you know, it just hit me like as I was listening to was like man, you know, it's so unfortunate that in certain cases he wasn't able to sing, you know, about the love that he was specifically probably talking about, but

33:56.925 --> 34:13.391
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is, I mean, literally speaking like that's a story a lot of queer men can relate to as well, you know, for different reasons, but, you know, I've certainly been in situations where, you know, there have been dudes I was interested in, that

34:14.891 --> 34:35.860
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, were in relationships with women and had to kind of like carry on in secret or, you know, you know, certainly, at the beginning of me exploring my sexuality before it was much more common place to be openly queer, you know, with dudes who would like experiment with you and then kind of be like, oh, no, I'm straight in like regular life.

34:35.880 --> 34:40.642
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that there was a related ability there that Luther really really tapped into.

34:41.283 --> 34:41.523
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

34:42.712 --> 34:53.555
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so August 12, 1981, never too much comes out, never too much is the single, number one R&B.

34:55.436 --> 35:07.979
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of people would say this was maybe his best song so to have that be like your first single and for people to still believe that is the best song that you ever did is kind of incredible to me.

35:12.459 --> 35:19.361
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what 45 years later, and I hear that song and it's just like, happiness in your ear drums.

35:19.721 --> 35:21.022
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

35:22.042 --> 35:27.824
[SPEAKER_00]: Grammy nomination, so best new artist, Best Mail, R&B Vocal, but does not win.

35:28.864 --> 35:34.066
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's a fantastic debut.

35:34.386 --> 35:39.108
[SPEAKER_00]: And he would actually come out with album number two, just barely over a year later,

35:40.621 --> 35:46.187
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny because I remember, you know, Luther for comics.

35:46.708 --> 35:49.631
[SPEAKER_00]: He was often a lot of jokes.

35:49.832 --> 35:50.833
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

35:50.913 --> 35:59.322
[SPEAKER_00]: Any Murphy Martin Lawrence and Martin Lawrence hit one of his standups was like,

36:00.303 --> 36:22.493
[SPEAKER_00]: you know we don't want to we don't want the fast stuff and he's talking about bad boy having a party he's like that's not you Luther we want the slow Luther right i listen to that song knowing that joke before i had ever heard the song so that's that that always makes me laugh but sounds actually pretty good i don't know it's a great song yeah it was more talking about

36:24.141 --> 36:36.785
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, Marty Marm, and since I lost my baby, I think people were remember, and so then another 13 months later.

36:36.805 --> 36:43.507
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about three albums in the span of like 30, 39 months busy body comes out.

36:43.527 --> 36:46.008
[SPEAKER_00]: Now these are all platinum selling records.

36:46.028 --> 36:50.029
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how long it actually took them to go platinum, but no, no, I think it was a

36:53.545 --> 37:00.391
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think there may be like three or four other artists at that time who would have like their first seven or eight albums all go platinum.

37:01.752 --> 37:08.118
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also around this time doing stuff with Aritha, producing some of her stuff.

37:08.718 --> 37:11.581
[SPEAKER_00]: The night I fell in love February of 85.

37:11.681 --> 37:16.805
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where he did lose some weight, which became a thing.

37:16.825 --> 37:17.906
[SPEAKER_00]: We became a topic.

37:20.577 --> 37:23.678
[SPEAKER_00]: And then 86 is give me the reason.

37:24.038 --> 37:29.960
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with that, that was actually, like if you look at the cover, give me your give me the reason, which I have down there.

37:30.260 --> 37:31.481
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's doing the thriller lean.

37:31.701 --> 37:32.021
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

37:32.601 --> 37:35.782
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's showing off, you know, the body odi odi.

37:36.082 --> 37:46.406
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, he's he's lost weight and he's, you know, very comfortable in his skin and wants to like show off the back that he's, you know, not as, uh,

37:49.602 --> 38:07.896
[SPEAKER_00]: And heavy as he was, he was also just a handsome dude, like, when he lost weight, his face was very sculpted and chiseled, he was still a handsome guy on the heavier end, but I could see how.

38:09.083 --> 38:25.741
[SPEAKER_01]: he would he would he lost weight he was like oh like this is a different version of me and i'm sure he got more attention and i'm sure people yeah i think you just like you know it made him more desirable um it made him more marketable because i think a common issue with his record company and it will like we can't market a fact dude

38:28.496 --> 38:38.799
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so yeah, I think it served a variety of purposes in terms of his self image and, you know, what he thought his marketability was.

38:40.340 --> 38:41.920
[SPEAKER_00]: He's slowing down a little bit.

38:42.640 --> 38:46.322
[SPEAKER_00]: Any love comes out about two years later.

38:47.142 --> 38:47.542
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's 1988.

38:57.865 --> 39:01.087
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet he's kind of staying the same.

39:01.187 --> 39:04.009
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not chasing that trend.

39:04.069 --> 39:07.911
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's just doubling down on his Luther sound.

39:08.132 --> 39:08.412
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

39:08.952 --> 39:13.615
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, we're talking six platinum albums in a row and a row here.

39:14.576 --> 39:21.100
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the early 90s hit power of love, love power, which where he wins his Grammy.

39:22.533 --> 39:24.515
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, well, you want to grant me for here and now.

39:24.635 --> 39:27.199
[SPEAKER_01]: So that came before we.

39:27.219 --> 39:29.822
[SPEAKER_01]: So power of love was the second grant here and now was 89.

39:30.063 --> 39:30.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

39:30.743 --> 39:31.865
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

39:31.905 --> 39:32.165
[SPEAKER_00]: Not it.

39:32.626 --> 39:35.149
[SPEAKER_00]: What album is here now on who's on a greatest history record.

39:35.590 --> 39:36.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's what it was.

39:36.351 --> 39:36.691
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

39:36.731 --> 39:37.192
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have it.

39:37.372 --> 39:37.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.

39:37.793 --> 39:39.936
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

39:41.578 --> 39:55.085
[SPEAKER_00]: And then yeah, like, you know, it's the early 90s and the early 90s is a little bit different musically, but he's still able to, you know, incredibly this album goes to two X platinum.

39:55.125 --> 39:58.847
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's his biggest hit album since his debut.

40:00.060 --> 40:12.309
[SPEAKER_00]: And then here's where for me, things start to change as I was listening to his albums from 93 through about 98.

40:12.669 --> 40:16.212
[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting a little repetitive though.

40:16.672 --> 40:18.273
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is actually a brilliant

40:24.262 --> 40:36.767
[SPEAKER_00]: And by releasing the cover's album, he's able to record with Mariah Carey so they redo Lionel Richie and Diana Ross in a version that I think is probably better than the original.

40:37.367 --> 40:43.889
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm not crazy about that song in general, so I don't really listen very much to either version.

40:46.153 --> 40:46.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.

40:46.794 --> 40:52.940
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's, it's, uh, you know, endless love in general, like the Lionel and Diana song.

40:52.980 --> 40:54.982
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people kind of put their finger down.

40:55.022 --> 40:56.183
[SPEAKER_00]: They're throat when they're in it.

40:56.223 --> 40:56.503
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

40:56.663 --> 40:56.983
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

40:57.124 --> 40:58.064
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, yeah, it's corny.

40:58.765 --> 41:05.432
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, like, you know, it's in the reality is also that Luther and Mariah are better singers than Diana and Lionel.

41:05.772 --> 41:06.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for sure.

41:07.273 --> 41:09.354
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they would work together.

41:09.654 --> 41:13.155
[SPEAKER_00]: I've, you know, just going through some stuff and some of this might be uncredited.

41:13.195 --> 41:14.135
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't look at the credits.

41:14.575 --> 41:22.878
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I could hear Mariah singing background on some Luther songs and the reason why I can tell is because Mariah has a very,

41:25.950 --> 41:30.694
[SPEAKER_00]: She has a very noticeable lisp when she puts the S and H together.

41:31.214 --> 41:33.916
[SPEAKER_00]: Like she does it like almost nobody else that I agree with here.

41:34.337 --> 41:38.640
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a there's a couple of songs where I hear her in the background because of that.

41:39.180 --> 41:50.289
[SPEAKER_01]: Huh, I do know that, you know, I don't know if Mariah's saying on on credit, you don't any loot the records, but I do know that Whitney's mom, Sissy Houston saying background on almost all of his records.

41:51.583 --> 42:21.430
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, he like as someone who came up in the like the jingle world and in the background singing world I think Luther had a very special place in his heart for like vocal arrangements and background vocals and on all of his records like those vocal arrangements are super intricate and is he's not doubling himself a tripling himself like most artists do for their own background vocals he hired people and brought them in and they were singing along with

42:22.370 --> 42:22.591
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

42:24.511 --> 42:31.595
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I said, as you kind of get to the later 80s, your secret love is is a really, really nice song.

42:31.635 --> 42:32.635
[SPEAKER_00]: It wins another Grammy.

42:32.675 --> 42:33.336
[SPEAKER_00]: That's 1986.

42:33.396 --> 42:34.196
[SPEAKER_00]: 90s.

42:34.876 --> 42:36.717
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

42:36.737 --> 42:36.977
[SPEAKER_00]: 86.

42:37.538 --> 42:39.358
[SPEAKER_00]: I know is 1988.

42:39.398 --> 42:43.920
[SPEAKER_00]: That is his last album on epic.

42:45.461 --> 42:46.742
[SPEAKER_01]: And sorry.

42:46.802 --> 42:48.223
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I'm correcting you.

42:50.221 --> 42:52.243
[SPEAKER_01]: His last studio album on Epic was your seat.

42:52.283 --> 42:54.105
[SPEAKER_01]: No, well, he did your secret love.

42:54.326 --> 42:55.587
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he had a Christmas album.

42:56.228 --> 42:57.229
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, I think.

42:57.870 --> 42:59.632
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was a second best of.

42:59.832 --> 43:01.834
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he left Sony.

43:01.854 --> 43:02.535
[SPEAKER_01]: He left Epic.

43:02.895 --> 43:04.477
[SPEAKER_01]: He put, I know, out on Virgin.

43:04.497 --> 43:05.799
[SPEAKER_01]: That was his name.

43:05.899 --> 43:06.700
[SPEAKER_00]: I know as a Virgin.

43:06.760 --> 43:07.380
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

43:07.420 --> 43:08.061
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on Virgin.

43:08.081 --> 43:09.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

43:10.003 --> 43:10.724
[SPEAKER_00]: And then,

43:11.892 --> 43:13.313
[SPEAKER_00]: 2001.

43:13.453 --> 43:25.080
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess I would say I know in 98 is a little he's testing the waters with some different sounds because it's all over the place.

43:25.601 --> 43:27.802
[SPEAKER_00]: Ronnie jerkins is on the salvo.

43:28.482 --> 43:35.267
[SPEAKER_00]: Very noticeably, by the way, and it feels

43:36.897 --> 43:38.858
[SPEAKER_00]: for Luther it feels late.

43:38.998 --> 43:46.243
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it would have been late for a younger artist, but for him it feels a little late to kind of dip his toe.

43:47.123 --> 43:57.670
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when he joins J records, the 2001 album, take you out is like perfect for 2001.

43:58.790 --> 44:00.752
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he kind of figured out that

44:02.060 --> 44:21.963
[SPEAKER_00]: the currency to stay current and to still stay traditional to his own sound, but I don't like all of take you out by the way, but take you out is such a fantastic single as like okay I'm still here you know I can still be fresh I can still be current and that's one of my favorite songs of his.

44:22.503 --> 44:24.825
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, he's not, it doesn't sound desperate.

44:24.865 --> 44:26.506
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't sound like he's trying to hard.

44:27.187 --> 44:29.609
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like it could be a classic Luther record.

44:29.669 --> 44:32.451
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just got like a little bit of a stronger beat behind it.

44:34.573 --> 44:35.654
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's cool.

44:35.754 --> 44:39.217
[SPEAKER_01]: It's contemporary and doesn't like it's not over the top.

44:40.418 --> 44:46.302
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Clyde Davis, for all this shit people talk about Clyde Davis, he was really good about

44:47.103 --> 44:59.251
[SPEAKER_01]: plugging people into a sound that was happening and we talked about this with Whitney too without making them sound like they were like running real hard to just keep up with everybody else.

45:01.252 --> 45:05.135
[SPEAKER_00]: And then of course the final album of his.

45:07.503 --> 45:31.322
[SPEAKER_00]: uh uh a final studio album of his life dance with my father um June of 2003 it is uh goes to ex platinum and that song will talk a little bit more when we get to the top five because i will see my top five okay but that song like in reflection of watching that documentary

45:32.830 --> 45:37.334
[SPEAKER_00]: man, that song, the lyrics to that song are incredible.

45:38.374 --> 45:48.102
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just remember when that album came out, because he gets sick, like very closely after the album is released, right?

45:48.162 --> 45:49.743
[SPEAKER_01]: He has the album is released.

45:49.923 --> 45:50.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.

45:50.644 --> 45:51.544
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's right before.

45:51.624 --> 45:53.506
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a month before the album was released.

45:55.100 --> 46:02.908
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I remember to, you know, back then, it's, it's now 20, 20 years or whatever.

46:02.948 --> 46:10.215
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I just remember, could you cannot disassociate?

46:11.432 --> 46:27.971
[SPEAKER_00]: his stroke and that's all right like I cannot like think about them independently of one another like it feels like it almost feels like it happened on the same day like the first time I heard that song you know right um he does do it do it with Beyonce which I

46:31.348 --> 46:32.609
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a giant fan of that.

46:32.669 --> 46:33.089
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.

46:33.389 --> 46:34.349
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not great.

46:34.669 --> 46:38.491
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's some weird like there's a song with Foxy on that album.

46:38.511 --> 46:40.451
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a song with bust on that album.

46:41.011 --> 46:44.293
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's definitely trying to like bust this as a weatherman on that song.

46:44.633 --> 46:54.296
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I'm like, you know, not sure how I feel about him doing songs with hip hop artists.

46:54.396 --> 46:59.438
[SPEAKER_01]: It just it felt very forced and interestingly,

47:01.324 --> 47:08.133
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than bust a he does one other song where there's I think where there's a male rapper, but every other song that there's a rapper on it.

47:08.213 --> 47:09.815
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a female rapper.

47:10.175 --> 47:12.819
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's Read between those lines.

47:13.219 --> 47:17.485
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the first female rapper that may have been on one of his songs.

47:17.925 --> 47:19.366
[SPEAKER_00]: is Spenderella.

47:19.426 --> 47:19.647
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

47:19.807 --> 47:20.127
[SPEAKER_00]: Spend.

47:20.347 --> 47:20.567
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

47:20.807 --> 47:21.148
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.

47:21.608 --> 47:21.848
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

47:21.948 --> 47:22.869
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was interesting.

47:23.229 --> 47:23.450
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

47:23.930 --> 47:24.490
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.

47:24.550 --> 47:26.852
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is his discography.

47:26.872 --> 47:29.474
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we'll go back to the first album.

47:29.514 --> 47:30.635
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll just dig a little deeper.

47:31.276 --> 47:34.458
[SPEAKER_00]: But um, our uh, Grammy Redux.

47:34.779 --> 47:39.763
[SPEAKER_00]: So we go to 1982 Grammys.

47:40.143 --> 47:40.543
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

47:40.804 --> 47:43.906
[SPEAKER_00]: Best R&V vocal performance male.

47:44.787 --> 47:45.587
[SPEAKER_00]: Luther is

47:48.605 --> 47:53.648
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he is nominated along with, uh, Teddy Pinnigras.

47:53.708 --> 47:55.169
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't live without your love.

47:56.530 --> 47:58.972
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, she's a bad man, magema Carl Carlton.

47:59.152 --> 47:59.812
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a jam.

48:01.073 --> 48:06.276
[SPEAKER_00]: Street songs by Rick James and James Ingram 100 ways.

48:07.797 --> 48:09.878
[SPEAKER_01]: I think James Ingram won the Grammy that year.

48:10.719 --> 48:13.921
[SPEAKER_00]: James, you were definitely one and that's not only song.

48:13.961 --> 48:15.442
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember off top of my head.

48:16.240 --> 48:17.061
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, really?

48:17.081 --> 48:17.682
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

48:18.182 --> 48:18.903
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

48:18.963 --> 48:19.164
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

48:19.244 --> 48:20.205
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

48:20.585 --> 48:20.966
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

48:21.026 --> 48:21.867
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.

48:22.227 --> 48:23.629
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on a Quincy record.

48:24.109 --> 48:24.430
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

48:25.091 --> 48:32.880
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, I'm tempted to say give Luke that award, but that was also Rick James's year.

48:33.280 --> 48:33.601
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

48:34.121 --> 48:34.862
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know,

48:35.922 --> 48:38.503
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you throw super freak on at a party.

48:38.583 --> 48:40.984
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm dancing as hard as I would be to never too much.

48:41.464 --> 48:41.664
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

48:42.105 --> 48:47.747
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, if Rick and Luther could have shared that or would have been some weird shit first of all.

48:48.247 --> 48:54.670
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, by the way, this is an aside.

48:55.810 --> 48:56.810
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw this video.

48:56.830 --> 48:57.511
[SPEAKER_00]: You know how like,

48:58.500 --> 49:02.444
[SPEAKER_00]: one of the things these days is, you know, people, everyone's doing a podcast, right?

49:03.425 --> 49:08.770
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they find a way to animate the story that is, and then they put it on Instagram.

49:09.130 --> 49:09.390
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

49:09.731 --> 49:10.832
[SPEAKER_00]: So Todd Bridges.

49:11.673 --> 49:12.313
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Lord.

49:12.353 --> 49:14.936
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't know that Todd Bridges was going to be on this podcast.

49:14.956 --> 49:16.237
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, did not.

49:16.777 --> 49:19.900
[SPEAKER_00]: Todd Bridges tells this story of,

49:20.847 --> 49:25.815
[SPEAKER_00]: and and I will I will get to the end and and because Eddie Murphy is involved in the story.

49:25.855 --> 49:26.156
[SPEAKER_00]: What?

49:27.097 --> 49:30.243
[SPEAKER_00]: So Todd Bridges said that he was friends with Eddie Murphy.

49:31.860 --> 49:57.920
[SPEAKER_00]: And Eddie Murphy, who is, you know, very outwardly so has said he never mess with drugs and people say that like he just did not he just saw it mess up too many people though my man's spending, you know, weekends with Rick James, you know, in Buffalo and that's crazy supposedly not doing anything but so Todd said that Eddie noticed that he was struggling.

49:58.964 --> 50:06.127
[SPEAKER_00]: and he said that Eddie called up Rick James to kind of help set Todd straight.

50:07.748 --> 50:20.474
[SPEAKER_00]: And Todd said that he was at his house with a female in Rick comes over and as like a man like, you know, where's your stuff at?

50:20.955 --> 50:25.357
[SPEAKER_00]: And Todd points to it and so Rick says, okay, here's what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna help you out.

50:26.117 --> 50:27.578
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna take half of your stuff.

50:30.173 --> 50:31.614
[SPEAKER_00]: because you don't, this is too much.

50:32.314 --> 50:33.315
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need all this.

50:35.136 --> 50:38.679
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he also left with the lady who is... Mr. Steel, you girl.

50:40.000 --> 50:45.143
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Todd is telling the story, and it sounds kind of like, okay, dude, whatever.

50:45.784 --> 50:50.847
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a part of the story where Eddie is at the end, somebody asks Eddie about this.

50:51.287 --> 50:51.848
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like,

50:53.200 --> 50:56.142
[SPEAKER_00]: I said Rick James over to Todd, I didn't know.

50:56.863 --> 50:58.384
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he doesn't remember any of this.

50:58.964 --> 50:59.644
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, girl.

50:59.665 --> 51:01.826
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like a, he said he said story.

51:02.166 --> 51:02.406
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

51:02.607 --> 51:18.377
[SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that Todd Rick James and Eddie are involved in the story was like, why isn't, like, there has to, there has to be some more stories about this, these three guys, like I would say to listen to the stories.

51:19.318 --> 51:21.859
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't get more 80s unless you throw a Jackson in there somewhere.

51:22.199 --> 51:22.539
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:22.979 --> 51:23.319
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

51:23.960 --> 51:24.680
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.

51:24.840 --> 51:25.600
[SPEAKER_00]: Put your mane in there.

51:25.740 --> 51:26.500
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your mane in there?

51:26.520 --> 51:27.181
[SPEAKER_01]: Greece is your mane.

51:28.281 --> 51:28.481
[SPEAKER_01]: No.

51:28.901 --> 51:30.562
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's like, in our city, it was book.

51:31.042 --> 51:33.323
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells the story about hanging out at Luther's house.

51:33.663 --> 51:33.863
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

51:34.183 --> 51:38.485
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like him and Luther and Elton John and Janet Jackson and Johnny Gill.

51:38.565 --> 51:43.246
[SPEAKER_01]: It just like, man, you know, what was everybody doing?

51:43.286 --> 51:47.528
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to be a bunch of stories that the people who were still alive were just too

51:51.903 --> 51:56.705
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Luther is like a famous Arsenio guest, too.

51:56.765 --> 51:56.965
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

51:57.345 --> 52:00.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it very first musical guest on the Arsenio all show?

52:00.726 --> 52:03.767
[SPEAKER_00]: In the last musical guest on the Arsenio all show.

52:04.707 --> 52:07.848
[SPEAKER_00]: In the documentary, thick of the night.

52:08.949 --> 52:09.629
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.

52:10.069 --> 52:10.729
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan thick.

52:10.989 --> 52:11.630
[SPEAKER_00]: Alan thick.

52:11.990 --> 52:15.651
[SPEAKER_00]: And a young Arsenio Hall as his Ed McMan.

52:16.051 --> 52:16.371
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

52:16.831 --> 52:19.452
[SPEAKER_00]: And they introduce Luther on the show.

52:20.272 --> 52:23.435
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, wow, it's crazy.

52:23.855 --> 52:28.859
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy, you know, Robin was sitting somewhere backstage like, I like this shit.

52:28.879 --> 52:30.680
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I can notice.

52:33.122 --> 52:36.185
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, young Robin, young Robin, just watching everything.

52:36.833 --> 52:38.513
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, um, okay.

52:38.553 --> 52:40.214
[SPEAKER_00]: So back to never too much.

52:40.734 --> 52:49.256
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, the song, I mean, this album has what eight songs seven or eight out of seven, which yeah, something like that.

52:49.316 --> 52:50.217
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a lot of songs.

52:51.257 --> 52:57.339
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and you know, when we get to our, uh, skip, uh, skip, uh, skip serating.

52:57.359 --> 52:58.059
[SPEAKER_00]: No skip serating.

52:58.599 --> 53:02.320
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of hard because, you know, when you only have seven songs like,

53:04.118 --> 53:07.719
[SPEAKER_00]: they already cut the fat out like they're like we're giving you no fat.

53:08.179 --> 53:08.419
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

53:08.439 --> 53:13.421
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I also don't like I think a lot of this album is really fun.

53:17.162 --> 53:19.362
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it front to back your favorite Luther album?

53:20.543 --> 53:21.183
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.

53:21.723 --> 53:25.264
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there are a couple of albums maybe towards the middle of his career.

53:26.704 --> 53:28.625
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say like busy body night I fell in love

53:33.240 --> 53:35.360
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to work as way up a little bit.

53:36.521 --> 53:53.744
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think the thing that I really like about this album is obviously the place in time, like this crot, you know, 70s, early 80s, like there's a certain sound, and it very much embodies like that timeframe.

53:54.164 --> 53:56.325
[SPEAKER_00]: As you get more to the mid 80s, it's like,

53:57.345 --> 54:11.706
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, this is exactly what 1985 sounds like I was to say what's 1985 you could play this this Luther song, but yeah, like I just going back and listening to it, you know, there is something about.

54:12.815 --> 54:18.481
[SPEAKER_00]: the space and time of the late 70s crossing into the 80s as we get more into the mid 80s into the later 80s.

54:19.381 --> 54:25.527
[SPEAKER_00]: Things are so much more commercialized and you know, and it's all about product and brand.

54:26.208 --> 54:33.055
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's so there is a little bit more innocence, I think, in the music for for that first album, just in just in that genre, in that timeframe.

54:33.490 --> 54:35.651
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't as calculated.

54:35.671 --> 54:38.974
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't people weren't playing for MTV.

54:39.054 --> 54:44.117
[SPEAKER_01]: People weren't trying to, I mean, a big thing for Luther was crossing over.

54:44.617 --> 54:51.582
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a time when, if you were a black artist, you had to kind of reach a peak.

54:52.494 --> 54:57.260
[SPEAKER_01]: at Black radio before white stations would even like think about playing your record.

54:57.281 --> 55:00.345
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were maybe only like five or six artists that were exempt from this.

55:00.385 --> 55:04.690
[SPEAKER_01]: Would it be like Michael and Stevie and Lionel and Diana and like whatever.

55:06.393 --> 55:09.156
[SPEAKER_01]: And Luther's like if I'm selling a million records of pop.

55:10.173 --> 55:14.616
[SPEAKER_01]: as a black artist, why am I still too black to get played on white radio?

55:15.116 --> 55:15.717
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

55:15.977 --> 55:28.546
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think that as his records progressed, his sound watered down a little bit, to maybe try to fit, you know, who's basically, late 80s early 90s, Michael Bowen gets popular.

55:28.886 --> 55:34.550
[SPEAKER_01]: Michael Bowen is essentially the white Luther Vandra, built a skinny white Luther Vandra, this skinny white straight Luther Vandra.

55:36.121 --> 55:42.667
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and they want to same with that hair with bad hair and I'm pretty sure Luther went to some label memes.

55:42.687 --> 55:57.161
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, yo You can get this dude played on a radio and I can't get played on a radio even though my record sound damn near exactly the same So you know, it was just kind of a it was a struggle for him

55:58.620 --> 56:09.187
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, same thing with getting recognized in like the pop category at the Grammys, he was like, I don't just want R&B Grammys, I want record of the year or song of the year, or album of the year.

56:09.787 --> 56:15.211
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, unfortunately, he had to get sick in order to get that, because I think dance with my father won song of the year, that year.

56:16.852 --> 56:27.299
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I mean, he definitely had issues with being placed in a box, you know, because of the color of his skin.

56:28.355 --> 56:28.555
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

56:28.635 --> 56:33.500
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think also his size and the rumors about his sexuality had something to do with it.

56:34.080 --> 56:40.446
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, and also an unwillingness to kind of chase what was, you know, going like imagine.

56:41.226 --> 56:45.530
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like, I'm going to surprise you with a category at right after this.

56:46.151 --> 56:51.976
[SPEAKER_00]: But imagine like, and not that I would have wanted this dude to work with Luther after what we know about this dude.

56:51.996 --> 56:54.959
[SPEAKER_00]: But imagine our Kelly going like, okay, we did.

56:56.075 --> 56:57.936
[SPEAKER_01]: They're Kelly and Luther have us all together.

56:58.136 --> 56:58.536
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?

56:58.677 --> 56:59.077
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it good?

56:59.857 --> 57:06.861
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but on on the second greatest hit album.

57:07.241 --> 57:11.323
[SPEAKER_01]: Our Kelly has it and it was the lead single from that album too and it didn't do super well.

57:13.524 --> 57:14.685
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's not very good.

57:17.006 --> 57:21.449
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, and you could you could maybe make like

57:22.270 --> 57:28.794
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a way that Luther fits into like the thing that our Kelly or our Kelly fits into the thing that Luther does.

57:29.134 --> 57:35.598
[SPEAKER_01]: Because occasionally our Kelly was capable of writing a song that was not like super sexual.

57:36.058 --> 57:50.067
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's right, or if I can turn back the hands of time, or whatever, what would have been weirder would have been like, hey, Ferrell, come do this song for Luther.

57:52.688 --> 57:56.045
[SPEAKER_00]: Sound-wise, I think it could have been.

57:57.255 --> 57:57.735
[SPEAKER_00]: interesting.

57:57.755 --> 58:01.396
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I want to hear more than like one or two of them though.

58:01.656 --> 58:01.816
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

58:01.856 --> 58:02.917
[SPEAKER_01]: It would sound a different.

58:02.977 --> 58:04.657
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just not sure what it sounded good.

58:05.297 --> 58:07.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

58:07.338 --> 58:09.659
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your second favorite song on the album?

58:10.479 --> 58:13.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I'm and this is me assuming that never too much is your favorite song on the cell.

58:13.740 --> 58:16.280
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're blown up my top five list.

58:16.801 --> 58:17.101
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

58:17.341 --> 58:19.501
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my top two songs are from that album.

58:27.287 --> 58:28.508
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to read through my notes.

58:28.548 --> 58:34.631
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk a few little other pieces of of Luther trivia.

58:34.671 --> 58:35.411
[SPEAKER_00]: So 2004.

58:35.431 --> 58:39.893
[SPEAKER_00]: At the 2005 Grammys or since it's 2000 and this is 2004 Grammys, 2020.

58:44.610 --> 58:45.470
[SPEAKER_00]: five Grammys.

58:45.490 --> 58:49.891
[SPEAKER_00]: This is 25 or 26 Grammys where Luther is the, oh, there was this year.

58:49.911 --> 58:53.372
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the 20, I mean, it was the Grammys that came on this year.

58:53.572 --> 58:53.992
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

58:54.012 --> 59:02.373
[SPEAKER_00]: So the 20, 26 Grammys, Kendrick Lamar and SZA, um, they actually, they actually win, is it song or record it?

59:02.393 --> 59:11.435
[SPEAKER_00]: They want a record of the year for for Luther, which samples if this world were mine, which is not a Luther record interestingly,

59:13.713 --> 59:19.356
[SPEAKER_00]: and share when share gives out the award, she gives it out to Luther himself.

59:20.156 --> 59:27.999
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm pretty sure Luther was somewhere in the spirit universe like, yeah, damn right, I want that guy damn over here, it's my song.

59:28.920 --> 59:35.442
[SPEAKER_01]: My song that I A, so the funny thing about if this were mine, A, it's a cover, it's a Marvigate song.

59:35.663 --> 59:35.903
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

59:36.903 --> 59:39.344
[SPEAKER_01]: And B, it was released on Chevrolet's record.

59:39.744 --> 59:40.745
[SPEAKER_00]: As it went with, okay.

59:41.846 --> 59:48.953
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right, but the song is just called Luther that's moved there.

59:48.973 --> 59:49.754
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, great.

59:50.154 --> 59:52.396
[SPEAKER_00]: And then rock real hall fame.

59:55.520 --> 59:56.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Final at that time.

59:56.721 --> 59:57.001
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

59:58.563 --> 59:59.964
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, a lot of this is.

01:00:01.179 --> 01:00:05.123
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the saying about giving people their flowers when they can smell when they are alive.

01:00:05.203 --> 01:00:12.950
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, unfortunately for Luther, you know, it is 20 some odd years after he passed away and the state is probably just like.

01:00:13.933 --> 01:00:21.182
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, finally, like we got some, you know, we got some acclaim here, right for a guy who was chasing that for a lot.

01:00:21.202 --> 01:00:22.324
[SPEAKER_00]: He wanted his proppers.

01:00:22.404 --> 01:00:24.667
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he was like, I am good.

01:00:25.007 --> 01:00:26.209
[SPEAKER_00]: I deserve my proppers.

01:00:26.489 --> 01:00:30.794
[SPEAKER_00]: And is it, is it, is it Marcus Miller?

01:00:30.855 --> 01:00:32.577
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that the guy who was on the dock?

01:00:33.572 --> 01:00:47.337
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, is that the Marcus Miller played bass on all of those with the records and it was like his musical arranger, like his musical partner pretty jacked to in that in that dock, he had some weights.

01:00:47.937 --> 01:00:59.041
[SPEAKER_00]: He was saying that when Luther won the Grammy for the first time finally, he said that for the day, Luther made everyone, they couldn't just call him Luther, they had to call him Grammy award.

01:01:03.735 --> 01:01:06.217
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have called Luther whatever he wanted me to call it that's right.

01:01:06.337 --> 01:01:18.689
[SPEAKER_00]: Ron Zoni, whatever you did exactly do you remember any of the other 70s jingles that that he did he did one of the he did a be all you can be jingles.

01:01:18.729 --> 01:01:19.750
[SPEAKER_01]: He did an army jingles.

01:01:19.910 --> 01:01:20.410
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he did.

01:01:20.750 --> 01:01:21.911
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:01:21.992 --> 01:01:22.652
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there was a

01:01:24.302 --> 01:01:27.246
[SPEAKER_00]: there was a Miller time one.

01:01:27.306 --> 01:01:28.988
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I think so.

01:01:29.409 --> 01:01:31.632
[SPEAKER_01]: Was there a McDonald's one?

01:01:32.553 --> 01:01:33.615
[SPEAKER_01]: Might have been KFC.

01:01:33.895 --> 01:01:34.776
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it was the call though.

01:01:34.796 --> 01:01:39.903
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm just confusing that with the joke Eddie made about Lutheran just being a KFC and MF.

01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, why is Luther always the butt of these jokes, man?

01:01:44.281 --> 01:01:44.581
[SPEAKER_01]: Joe's.

01:01:45.262 --> 01:01:58.909
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as funny, there's a picture and I think it's in the book that I mentioned earlier where Luther was like, oh, I heard Eddie Murphy was saying some stuff about me and he came out with like a bunch of KFC buckets wrapped around him.

01:01:59.289 --> 01:01:59.469
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:01:59.489 --> 01:02:00.730
[SPEAKER_00]: He was he was smart.

01:02:00.930 --> 01:02:02.191
[SPEAKER_00]: He was smart to be in on it.

01:02:02.631 --> 01:02:04.092
[SPEAKER_01]: He was able to make fun of himself.

01:02:04.192 --> 01:02:04.432
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:02:09.371 --> 01:02:13.172
[SPEAKER_00]: Aritha's jump to it and get it right.

01:02:13.572 --> 01:02:14.712
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

01:02:14.732 --> 01:02:22.394
[SPEAKER_00]: He also produced Dionne Warwick, who was kind of like someone he really looked up to as he was in the game early in the game.

01:02:22.414 --> 01:02:27.595
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like we said, he shaped that like that quite storm sound.

01:02:27.655 --> 01:02:37.717
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, there is an avenue for old school R&B music to continue to get played on the radio that's a specific sound.

01:02:38.457 --> 01:02:40.778
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to Luther, I think at least a big part of it is thanks.

01:02:40.798 --> 01:02:49.944
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think the pillars of that sound, if you think like 80s, quiet storm, you think Luther Vandros and Eda Baker, and everybody else kind of like follows from there.

01:02:50.584 --> 01:02:56.427
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, those two were like mainstays of that genre.

01:02:56.948 --> 01:02:58.449
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I was somebody who

01:03:00.312 --> 01:03:12.538
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, every week night when I was going to sleep, you know, turn on a quiet storm or comes on a 10 and 10 and 10 at night or 9 at night, one of the two and you just let the slow jams take you to bed help you to fall asleep.

01:03:12.878 --> 01:03:13.078
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:03:13.399 --> 01:03:13.919
[SPEAKER_00]: So what they do.

01:03:14.399 --> 01:03:14.579
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:16.060
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

01:03:16.100 --> 01:03:17.101
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's my new.

01:03:17.141 --> 01:03:17.601
[SPEAKER_01]: What?

01:03:18.021 --> 01:03:21.583
[SPEAKER_01]: And the song slow jams by twist and Kanye Sam was Luther.

01:03:22.083 --> 01:03:22.343
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

01:03:22.903 --> 01:03:23.043
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:03:23.584 --> 01:03:23.964
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like.

01:03:25.204 --> 01:03:34.513
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you when I last did one of our episodes, I was like, I feel like he was hip-hop's favorite armbeasinger.

01:03:36.113 --> 01:03:38.094
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, definitely hip hop's mom's favorite.

01:03:38.114 --> 01:03:50.260
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm being just so many different versions of his songs that were sampled or that were interpolated or like little hooks, like just little lines and certain songs.

01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:52.160
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, that's from a Luther song.

01:03:52.240 --> 01:03:53.621
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah.

01:03:53.841 --> 01:03:56.062
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here's the segment that I did not prepare you for.

01:03:56.602 --> 01:03:58.023
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, I'm ready.

01:03:58.763 --> 01:04:01.925
[SPEAKER_00]: In their primes, and this would be Luther in his prime too.

01:04:03.507 --> 01:04:10.942
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you rather have a fully produced, jam and Lewis Luther album or LA and baby face?

01:04:11.463 --> 01:04:12.065
[SPEAKER_00]: Luther album.

01:04:14.399 --> 01:04:18.400
[SPEAKER_01]: The jam and Lewis will be more interesting and be way more interesting.

01:04:18.660 --> 01:04:22.822
[SPEAKER_01]: For context, jam and Lewis did work with him on a few occasions.

01:04:22.842 --> 01:04:25.062
[SPEAKER_01]: They had that best things in life for free song, Janet.

01:04:25.462 --> 01:04:27.543
[SPEAKER_00]: That was talking about that in my top five.

01:04:27.743 --> 01:04:33.225
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right, baby face would have just been like, this is going to be all ballads.

01:04:33.325 --> 01:04:35.045
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all going to kind of sound alike.

01:04:35.446 --> 01:04:37.386
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not going to be much variety in the album.

01:04:37.806 --> 01:04:39.487
[SPEAKER_01]: Jam and Lewis would have thrown some curved balls.

01:04:40.528 --> 01:04:59.897
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I would rather listen to the jam and Lewis album, though I'm sure baby face they would have a no no one hit did I I'm pretty sure this is the story that every time I closed my eyes was written for Luther and Luther rejected it.

01:05:00.137 --> 01:05:00.638
[SPEAKER_00]: No way.

01:05:00.658 --> 01:05:00.758
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

01:05:02.007 --> 01:05:02.387
[SPEAKER_01]: damn.

01:05:02.948 --> 01:05:03.128
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

01:05:03.468 --> 01:05:06.209
[SPEAKER_01]: So we came very close to having a baby face Luther record.

01:05:06.830 --> 01:05:10.412
[SPEAKER_00]: It just seems like that would have been a natural, right?

01:05:10.432 --> 01:05:18.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can hear like when I play the song back in my head with Luther's voice on top of it, I'm like this makes perfect sense.

01:05:20.137 --> 01:05:24.840
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever Luther just didn't, he was like, I'm not rocking with this record and baby face kept to himself.

01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:25.260
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to hit

01:05:31.541 --> 01:05:55.789
[SPEAKER_00]: very protective of what he wanted to do up the control, like we said in the beginning, you know, he wanted control of what he was going to do and you know, he wasn't going to necessarily place, you know, his, his projects and in hands that he was uncomfortable in for what it, but to me it feels like maybe face in him would have been like a natural kind of connection there.

01:05:56.432 --> 01:06:07.280
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I do think he was very protective, protective of his brand and, you know, very particular about the people that he worked with, you know, such a baby face as a competitor possibly.

01:06:07.641 --> 01:06:08.641
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's possible.

01:06:08.902 --> 01:06:09.682
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's possible.

01:06:09.882 --> 01:06:12.985
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's also a lot of stories about out there about Luther being a raging bitch.

01:06:13.005 --> 01:06:15.727
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you

01:06:17.550 --> 01:06:19.593
[SPEAKER_01]: are just being like very, very difficult.

01:06:20.074 --> 01:06:23.258
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, he went on tour with the baker and they had beef.

01:06:23.779 --> 01:06:24.881
[SPEAKER_01]: He took in both on tour.

01:06:24.901 --> 01:06:25.542
[SPEAKER_01]: They had beef.

01:06:26.163 --> 01:06:27.585
[SPEAKER_01]: He worked with the Reath of they had beef.

01:06:28.026 --> 01:06:30.129
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just feel like, you know,

01:06:31.696 --> 01:06:39.638
[SPEAKER_01]: Luther, I think, was difficult and protective in some ways that maybe we're preventing that relationship from really going, we're at needed to go.

01:06:40.878 --> 01:06:43.759
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, no skips rating on, uh, never too much.

01:06:43.999 --> 01:06:45.299
[SPEAKER_00]: Only a few songs here.

01:06:45.439 --> 01:06:47.000
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's, it's a quick hit.

01:06:47.160 --> 01:06:48.480
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would give it an eight.

01:06:49.140 --> 01:06:50.420
[SPEAKER_01]: I can play that album straight through.

01:06:50.900 --> 01:06:52.961
[SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking seven and a half for sure.

01:06:53.901 --> 01:07:01.646
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but all right, so we'll be back with our top five, which I'm very interested because now you gave a little.

01:07:01.706 --> 01:07:02.467
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave it away.

01:07:02.487 --> 01:07:03.648
[SPEAKER_00]: You just a little bit.

01:07:03.728 --> 01:07:04.688
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't get all the way.

01:07:04.829 --> 01:07:06.350
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you give 60 to 40% of it?

01:07:06.370 --> 01:07:06.930
[SPEAKER_00]: 40% of it away.

01:07:07.110 --> 01:07:13.634
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mentioned the best things in life for free because that is a, that is a song that.

01:07:15.088 --> 01:07:16.770
[SPEAKER_00]: I was chasing that song for a while.

01:07:16.970 --> 01:07:18.771
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, man, how can I find this song?

01:07:20.252 --> 01:07:21.733
[SPEAKER_00]: The Mo Money Soundtrack?

01:07:21.793 --> 01:07:24.695
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I really want to buy this Mo Money Soundtrack?

01:07:25.356 --> 01:07:28.498
[SPEAKER_00]: But okay, so we'll be back with our top five with Luther.

01:07:28.598 --> 01:07:33.842
[SPEAKER_00]: And then later, you'll see my review of Never Too Much.

01:07:34.443 --> 01:07:37.285
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll put our playlist top five.

01:07:37.505 --> 01:07:38.766
[SPEAKER_00]: Of Luther as well.

01:07:38.946 --> 01:07:40.947
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, that's it for me or so.

01:07:41.829 --> 01:07:44.645
[SPEAKER_00]: For Mike, I'm WGC, when we see you, peace out.